Combat Discussion
Moderators: thunderchero, Iceman
- CaptScarff
- Ensign
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:42 pm
Re: Combat Discussion
Thanks for the replies Iceman.
So I would suggest that the fleet/ship movements primary impact will be on accuracy and maneuverability at least on the first pass at implementing the combat screen.
I still like my idea around "diverting" power for shields to weapons and vice versa. I am thinking of combinations like evade and divert power to shields or assault with divert to weapons, etc. Again if it is too complicated, we can limit the first pass to a handful of movements to start with.
So a Sample Combat Table could look like
TableStart ShipCombatMovementAccuracy
ColumnHeadingsStart Science Scout FastAttack Cruiser HeavyCruiser StrikeCruiser Command
Assault 85 85 85 85 85 85 85
Charge 75 75 75 75 75 75 75
Harry 65 65 65 65 65 65 65
Strafe 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
Evade 25 25 25 25 25 25 25
Ram 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Retreat 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Note sure yet what the numbers should represent. Maximum accuracy, minimum accuracy or should it be a modifier. E.g. improves accuracy by 5% or decreases accuracy by 60%
A maneuverability table will also be needed too with a similar layout for the different movements.
Should there be a table per empire eventually?
So I would suggest that the fleet/ship movements primary impact will be on accuracy and maneuverability at least on the first pass at implementing the combat screen.
I still like my idea around "diverting" power for shields to weapons and vice versa. I am thinking of combinations like evade and divert power to shields or assault with divert to weapons, etc. Again if it is too complicated, we can limit the first pass to a handful of movements to start with.
So a Sample Combat Table could look like
TableStart ShipCombatMovementAccuracy
ColumnHeadingsStart Science Scout FastAttack Cruiser HeavyCruiser StrikeCruiser Command
Assault 85 85 85 85 85 85 85
Charge 75 75 75 75 75 75 75
Harry 65 65 65 65 65 65 65
Strafe 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
Evade 25 25 25 25 25 25 25
Ram 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Retreat 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
Note sure yet what the numbers should represent. Maximum accuracy, minimum accuracy or should it be a modifier. E.g. improves accuracy by 5% or decreases accuracy by 60%
A maneuverability table will also be needed too with a similar layout for the different movements.
Should there be a table per empire eventually?
Re: Combat Discussion
there must be penalty, or shields or weapons, it shoudl be relatively easy to implement too if its non existent.
if you would go by "star trek" rules and most its games,... you have 100% of "power pool" + bonus "auxiliary power" that can be "transferred" to one of pools up to some 120% (this pool can be easily expanded with experience and some percentage of percentage, so it can "ever grow"(cus exp) but will never reach 100% (only 99,99∞))
question is, how do you want to limit per other pools weapons, shield, maneuverability, hull?, regen?
(ie. be able to "pour" extra in only one pool, or spread as u see fit across more of em)
if you would go by "star trek" rules and most its games,... you have 100% of "power pool" + bonus "auxiliary power" that can be "transferred" to one of pools up to some 120% (this pool can be easily expanded with experience and some percentage of percentage, so it can "ever grow"(cus exp) but will never reach 100% (only 99,99∞))
question is, how do you want to limit per other pools weapons, shield, maneuverability, hull?, regen?
(ie. be able to "pour" extra in only one pool, or spread as u see fit across more of em)
as with any strategy game, specially space ones, most definitely yes ^^CaptScarff wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:49 pmYeah, the idea would be to try and make players build diverse fleets made up of different types of ships rather than a single ship type.Would the other types also have something similar?Does the ship type have an effect on combat? E.g. Does a Fast Attack get a bonus attacking a Cruiser and a Cruiser gets a bonus against a Command and a Command then have a bonus against a Fast Attack?
No.
► Show Spoiler
Re: Combat Discussion
The accuracy table looks like this:
To note that with the way it is implemented, the lower the better.
Maybe the modifier approach would be better, as we'll also need to take into account the target's movement type?
I'm not sure a similar table for maneuverability would be needed, that value is already specific to each ship type (ie, colony ships have low values, destroyers have high values, etc).
The divert power idea sounds good.
We might want to be careful about adding too many modifiers, as large battles can get bogged down in calculations, and it might be hard to track damage dealt, for balance purposes. Just thinking out loud.
Code: Select all
TableStart AccuracyBaseValues
ColumnHeadingsStart Value
RowHeadingsStart
Green 50
Regular 30
Veteran 20
Elite 10
Legendary 0
TableEnd
Maybe the modifier approach would be better, as we'll also need to take into account the target's movement type?
I'm not sure a similar table for maneuverability would be needed, that value is already specific to each ship type (ie, colony ships have low values, destroyers have high values, etc).
The divert power idea sounds good.
We might want to be careful about adding too many modifiers, as large battles can get bogged down in calculations, and it might be hard to track damage dealt, for balance purposes. Just thinking out loud.
Re: Combat Discussion
Has the team thought of the idea of a 2D combat engine for starters? Something like Distant Worlds Universe implemented. The developer behind that game (just one guy) made it work pretty well considering the scope of DWU. Also I know for the sequel he is writing a 3D combat engine from scratch. Maybe you all can reach out to him and see if he would lend some helpful advice and/or let you use his 2D engine for now.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." -- FDR
Re: Combat Discussion
I'll let our coder extraordinaire answer this, when he feels the time is right
Just didn't want it to look like I was ignoring your post.
Just didn't want it to look like I was ignoring your post.
Re: Combat Discussion
As Iceman mentioned in the other thread, a 3D combat engine is in development. Will be using Unity3D as the engine and hosting it within Supremacy. Almost all the work that has been done so far has been on the interface and communication between the two, since that's the most important part. There is no combat yet, but the combat information is being passed back and forth. Have a few more things to finish up there, but then work can begin on the actual combat.
All ships are currently being drawn using only 1 model (just something I grabbed off the net for testing).
Here's a quick video of the engine running within the game. Sorry about the video quality, my little laptop/tablet isn't up to the task of running video capture, so I had to take a video of my screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkp8aYP2898
Any input on what anyone thinks the combat should involve is welcome!
All ships are currently being drawn using only 1 model (just something I grabbed off the net for testing).
Here's a quick video of the engine running within the game. Sorry about the video quality, my little laptop/tablet isn't up to the task of running video capture, so I had to take a video of my screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkp8aYP2898
Any input on what anyone thinks the combat should involve is welcome!
- Spocks-cuddly-tribble
- Code Master
- Posts: 1925
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:00 am
Re: Combat Discussion
Self destruction option (warp core overload)
Damage (maybe depending on nominal hull, tech, mapspeed, weapon outputs...) to all ships in a certain nearby radius, decreasing with distance.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
Re: Combat Discussion
That would be cool. It's effect would probably have to drop off pretty heavily with distance to avoid it being overpowered. Also raises the question whether the explosion from destroyed ships should damage nearby vessels, since it is essentially the same thing happening.Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 2:44 pmSelf destruction option (warp core overload)
Damage (maybe depending on nominal hull, tech, mapspeed, weapon outputs...) to all ships in a certain nearby radius, decreasing with distance.
Re: Combat Discussion
1 would be exploding ship in battlefield sector;
1 = 100% core self-d dmg
2 = 80% (-20%)
3 = 50% (-30%)
4 = 10% (-40%)
5 or more 0%
It can take 1turn to "arm", and with science ship on other team, they could see "overload",...
self destruct should be allot stronger than "normal" explosion from fight
During self-destruct there should be no difference in "readout" info of enemy science vessel,
compared to core "overload" during fights and dmg from that
Those dmg numbers can also be "arbitrary" per ship size*class*(bonus exp or whatever), more(less) sectors.
1 = 100% core self-d dmg
2 = 80% (-20%)
3 = 50% (-30%)
4 = 10% (-40%)
5 or more 0%
► Show Spoiler
self destruct should be allot stronger than "normal" explosion from fight
During self-destruct there should be no difference in "readout" info of enemy science vessel,
compared to core "overload" during fights and dmg from that
Those dmg numbers can also be "arbitrary" per ship size*class*(bonus exp or whatever), more(less) sectors.
Re: Combat Discussion
Been working on ship movement and fleet spawning locations. Anyone have thoughts on initial fleet formation (ship layout)? A couple options that came to mind:
1. Each fleet's ships are placed in a spherical area. Each fleet is spawned next to each other near the player start location.
2. Each fleet's ships are placed in a circular area on a flat plane. (Like a 2D arrangement), also surrounding each player's start point. The combat will be taking place in 3D, so they wouldn't be locked to this for the duration of the battle.
The 2D type start would probably be cleaner for an initial starting view, but could get initially crowded during large battles. The spherical option seems more realistic.
I already have the different player starting points being determined, equal distance from center (radius), location depends on how many players are in the battle. Just need to decide on how fleets/ships will spawn around those points. The player starting points are all on a 2D plane, but could be changed to 3D if that's best.
1. Each fleet's ships are placed in a spherical area. Each fleet is spawned next to each other near the player start location.
2. Each fleet's ships are placed in a circular area on a flat plane. (Like a 2D arrangement), also surrounding each player's start point. The combat will be taking place in 3D, so they wouldn't be locked to this for the duration of the battle.
The 2D type start would probably be cleaner for an initial starting view, but could get initially crowded during large battles. The spherical option seems more realistic.
I already have the different player starting points being determined, equal distance from center (radius), location depends on how many players are in the battle. Just need to decide on how fleets/ships will spawn around those points. The player starting points are all on a 2D plane, but could be changed to 3D if that's best.
Re: Combat Discussion
How about #2 for fleets up to a certain number of ships, and #1 for larger fleets? Kind of a "layered" approach. Once the (default) circular area is filled, ships are placed in other circular areas above/below.
It would be possible for one of the sides to be placed as #2 (a small fleet), and the other as #1 (a large fleet).
It would be possible for one of the sides to be placed as #2 (a small fleet), and the other as #1 (a large fleet).
Re: Combat Discussion
We think alike. I worked on it a bunch today and that's what I ended up doing.Iceman wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 5:28 pm How about #2 for fleets up to a certain number of ships, and #1 for larger fleets? Kind of a "layered" approach. Once the (default) circular area is filled, ships are placed in other circular areas above/below.
It would be possible for one of the sides to be placed as #2 (a small fleet), and the other as #1 (a large fleet).
Re: Combat Discussion
Great minds and all that.
Re: Combat Discussion
You can dd 2-3 options, fill as u mentioned, or as fighter screen, or boxed(squared, rectangles, sphere)