Combat Discussion

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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Misfire
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Re: Combat Discussion

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All right, we're in business now. Composing a .mtl file, so the textures and materials are applied automatically. This model is after exporting, ready to go into unity as is. Only thing left to do it collapse the separate files into 1. Will probably want to adjust emissivity for glowing elements at some point, as it seems there isn't much support for passing emissive color in .mtl files.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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Awesome! :up:
Can't wait to see those in action in the combat engine!
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Re: Combat Discussion

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I've imported all the models into the combat engine except for 4 of them. There are a few issues with the other 4, but should be able to resolve it with a little more work. The rest look great. Going to leave them off the repo for now since they're close to 1gb.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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There are scale issues with some of the models (particularly some of the Borg), they show as too large in the shipyard.
Some models need to be replaced too. I've sent a list to Danijel quite some time ago.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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I noticed that. I handled that in the preview windows (where it shows current selected ship and current target) by scaling to a set size. I didn't do any scaling with the actual ships as they are spawned in space though, since that should be done in the models themselves.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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Iceman wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:05 am Polaris Sector, for some ideas.
I do like the overall look of this. One thing I'm really struggling with is getting the UI to be appropriate for small and large battles. It's easy to get something looking nice and easy to use for small battles, but once you have a larger battle, the UI can get really crowded, become hard to select the ships you want etc, especially if 2 different fleets are in the same area.
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble »

Misfire wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:05 pmonce you have a larger battle, the UI can get really crowded, become hard to select the ships you want
Yeah, this sucks in BotF as well.
In a 150 vs 150 battle I gave up to find my own cardassian Galor command ships (to issue evade) after two minutes of searching to no avail...:mad:
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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Misfire wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:05 pm
Iceman wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:05 am Polaris Sector, for some ideas.
I do like the overall look of this. One thing I'm really struggling with is getting the UI to be appropriate for small and large battles. It's easy to get something looking nice and easy to use for small battles, but once you have a larger battle, the UI can get really crowded, become hard to select the ships you want etc, especially if 2 different fleets are in the same area.
IIRC Armada 2526: Supernova addressed this by having large numbers of a given ship type (and only for those with a large number) "grouped" into smaller "entities" in the combat area - something like, if you had 100 destroyers, the game would (only) place like 10 destroyer icons on the map (they would move as one, but fire and take damage individually). Can't really recall how it was done precisely, though.
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble »

Selecting an "entity" could amplify it and hide (or make transparent) all other own ships (not enemies) so you can easier issue special orders for certain ships/sub-groups in this entity (+ e.g. highlight options for ships with shields down, different sub classes in entity...).

EDIT: Many star trek combat engines make the fatal mistake to go with a 'cartoonish' look. This hurts immersion and should be avoided at all cost for all rendering features (e.g. transparency).
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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Ok, this is what I think I'm going to do. When you zoom out past a certain point, the individual ships are replaced the civ insignia (representing that fleet). Clicking an insignia will zoom to that fleet and show the ships. If an attack order is issued, it prompts to select target. The camera zooms back out to the point where all fleets are visible (showing insignias representing the fleets). Mousing over an insignia shows a ship list on the left side of the screen. Clicking the insignia zooms to that fleet, at which point you have the option to target that general fleet, or select a specific target (ship).

Where it gets a little muddy is if you have a ship in a fleet assigned a separate order than the rest (ie evade) and it is in a totally different area than the rest of the fleet. Not sure how to deal with that. Maybe once a ship is ordered to do something else, a new fleet is generated for that ship? (Not in Supremacy, just in the combat engine). Though now that I think about it, it may need to be in Supremacy as well, since a retreat order would move the ship to a different sector.

I've started implementing the fleet ship listing, though it needs more work (screenshot). Thinking maybe each ship's orders should be displayed there as well, along with a right click menu to change?

Probably going to ditch the navigation panel, as it takes up too much room. Probably move attack pattern button and select target button to the orders panel, then shrink tactical panel. I also hid the operations panel for now (ship power distribution). I'd still like to implement that at some point, but in the interest of getting this released faster, putting it on hold for now.

Feedback on this welcome.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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Misfire wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:37 am Where it gets a little muddy is if you have a ship in a fleet assigned a separate order than the rest (ie evade) and it is in a totally different area than the rest of the fleet. Not sure how to deal with that. Maybe once a ship is ordered to do something else, a new fleet is generated for that ship? (Not in Supremacy, just in the combat engine). Though now that I think about it, it may need to be in Supremacy as well, since a retreat order would move the ship to a different sector.
I once tried to look into using the StandBy "posture" for some specific situations in combat: non-combat ships when there are (owned) combat ships in the battle; or "only fire when fired upon" situations with combat ships and stations.

I've started implementing the fleet ship listing, though it needs more work (screenshot). Thinking maybe each ship's orders should be displayed there as well, along with a right click menu to change?
Or have specific icons for each order, to save space? Clickable, opening a panel to change orders.

Probably going to ditch the navigation panel, as it takes up too much room. Probably move attack pattern button and select target button to the orders panel, then shrink tactical panel.
Sounds good.

I also hid the operations panel for now (ship power distribution). I'd still like to implement that at some point, but in the interest of getting this released faster, putting it on hold for now.
Clicking on the ship's icon could bring up that panel?


Looking really good! :up:

Uh, this is not Photoshop, is it? :twisted: We know who is going to ask... :cool:
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Re: Combat Discussion

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Or have specific icons for each order, to save space? Clickable, opening a panel to change orders.
Yes I like that Idea.
Uh, this is not Photoshop, is it? :twisted: We know who is going to ask... :cool:
Heh, no not photoshop. I still have a list of things that I think need to be finished before we can release a playable demo. Some of those are:
-Combat engine does not function upon loading a saved game. This is obviously a major issue but shouldn't be hard to solve.
-Combat engine loses communication with Supremacy. Happens at start of game, maybe 1 in 20 games. Know what the issue is, just haven't focused on it yet.
-Other basic UI stuff like what was mentioned in above post, (fleets, ships etc).
-Scale models so they are appropriate sizes. I'm probably just going to handle this by scaling the Unity prefabs, but if someone wants to do it on the models instead that would work too.
-A few other navigation command related things (ie, you can't currently exit/cancel the select target command).
-Get fleet/ship layout generation to take into account ship/model size. It is currently fixed layout, and large models (ie borg cube) really cause some problems with fleet formations.

Two other things I'd really like to get working:
-Implement cloak. It is not yet functional.
-Implement morale adjustments for won/lost battles. Diplomacy/regard is working, but haven't gotten to morale yet.

My overall todo list is much larger, but wouldn't have to be done to release a playable demo I suppose. Hopefully a few weeks if I can keep spending a decent amount of time on it. It will be just that though, a playable demo with lots of thing yet to be done.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:36 pm Selecting an "entity" could amplify it and hide (or make transparent) all other own ships (not enemies) so you can easier issue special orders for certain ships/sub-groups in this entity (+ e.g. highlight options for ships with shields down, different sub classes in entity...).

EDIT: Many star trek combat engines make the fatal mistake to go with a 'cartoonish' look. This hurts immersion and should be avoided at all cost for all rendering features (e.g. transparency).
If you have any suggestions about what I currently have for looks of the UI I currently have let me know. I'm not the greatest with colors, and pretty much everything I currently have was coloring style that was copied (more or less) from Supremacy itself. Probably best to keep it somewhat similiar so that it "feels" like a similair UI to the rest of Supremacy rather than something totally different.
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble »

Misfire wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 11:37 ama retreat order would move the ship to a different sector.
In BotF only if all other own ships get destroyed or retreat as well. TTs in invasion fleets always retreat, but stay in sector if the fleet wins.
It is up to you guys if you want to change this game mechanic in Supremacy?

You could auto popup the fleet/ships panel via mouse hovering or clicking (cf BotF)? Or an easy option to hide it for a cleaner fleet view?

+ 'Win this battle' cheat button so saved game scammers don't need to reload countless times until they figure a way to manipulate the outcome...:wink:

Misfire wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:22 pmIf you have any suggestions about what I currently have for looks of the UI I currently have let me know.
I'd make the 'cubes' of the selected ships/fleet smaller and more subtle. GUI style is great.:up:
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Combat Discussion

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I'd make 'cubes' of the selected ships/fleet more subtle.
I'll probably go back to 2D style selection indicators. It's what I had originally, but the way I implemented it was problematic. The 3D selection cubes were an easy solution at the time. I'll revisit it at some point.
In BotF only if all other own ships get destroyed or retreat as well. TTs in invasion fleets always retreat, but stay in sector if the fleet wins.
It is up to you guys if you want to change this game mechanic in Supremacy?
Yea, it's probably worth discussing how it works in Supremacy. When playing the game early on I was a little surprised the first time I retreated that the fleet set a long course back to safety. Almost needs to be 2 separate orders. One for just retreating to safety from the battle, the other retreat to (base, own system etc). Adds more complexity though, which isn't always the greatest.
You could auto popup the fleet/ships panel via mouse hovering or clicking (cf BotF)? Or an easy option to hide it for a cleaner fleet view?
I have it setup so that when you have a fleet selected, the fleet panel stays up. When you mouseover other fleets, it displays those. On mouse exit, it either collapses, or goes back to displaying the selected fleet.
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