Combat Discussion

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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CaptScarff
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Combat Discussion

Post by CaptScarff »

Create a screen, like the System Assault Screen, where space combat will occur. This screen will open when the Engage button is pressed.

Danijel will then populate the screen with the 3D models of the ships in the engagement.

Rules/Tactics needs to be discussed and determined. Open to suggestions
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CaptScarff
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by CaptScarff »

Suggestion
Attack/Defense/Normal Modification
Attack -> Increases weapon strength at the cost of shield strength. E.g. Base change of 5% increase in weapon strength for 10% shield decrease
Defense -> Increases shield strength at the cost of weapon strength. E.g. Base change of 5% increase in shield strength for 10% weapon decrease
Normal -> No modification

Crew experience should increase the effectiveness of the modification. E.g. With attack modification increase % would increase with a lesser impact on the shield decrease. E.g. Regular crew experience would be 6% increase in weapon strength with a 9% shield decrease.

Thoughts?
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CaptScarff
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by CaptScarff »

Fleet/Ships movements
What types of movements should be allowed?

BotF movements
  • Group Assault
  • Group Charge
  • Group Harry/Circle
  • Group Strafe/Flyby
  • Group Evade
  • Group Ram
  • Group Retreat
New Movement Suggestion: Group Cloak?

How does each movement impact each type of ship class? How does it effect accuracy of the weapons etc? Crew experience impact? If there are two fleets, can each fleet be assigned a different movement? Does a command ship help coordinate a fleet movement? Improve the impact of the movement?
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Iceman »

CaptScarff wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:00 pm Suggestion
Attack/Defense/Normal Modification
Attack -> Increases weapon strength at the cost of shield strength. E.g. Base change of 5% increase in weapon strength for 10% shield decrease
Defense -> Increases shield strength at the cost of weapon strength. E.g. Base change of 5% increase in shield strength for 10% weapon decrease
Normal -> No modification
Would this be something you choose for all your ships, for each task force, or for each ship individually?

Crew experience should increase the effectiveness of the modification. E.g. With attack modification increase % would increase with a lesser impact on the shield decrease. E.g. Regular crew experience would be 6% increase in weapon strength with a 9% shield decrease.

Thoughts?
Veteran 7% 8%
Elite 8% 7%
Legendary 9% 6%

Would there be a problem with this? I mean the bonus being larger than the penalty.
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Iceman »

CaptScarff wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:30 pm New Movement Suggestion: Group Cloak?
What would be the purpose of this? For ships to re-cloak after they have uncloaked? Will they be able to attack again after re-cloaking? If so, we need to make sure it's not unbalancing.
How does each movement impact each type of ship class? How does it effect accuracy of the weapons etc? Crew experience impact? If there are two fleets, can each fleet be assigned a different movement? Does a command ship help coordinate a fleet movement? Improve the impact of the movement?
And Officers, which we still need to implement.
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CaptScarff
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by CaptScarff »

Iceman wrote:What would be the purpose of this? For ships to re-cloak after they have uncloaked? Will they be able to attack again after re-cloaking? If so, we need to make sure it's not unbalancing.
Yes, the idea would be to allow ships to cloak/de-cloak during combat as the user/AI sees fit.
There could be penalty associated with doing this. E.g. reduction in both shield, weapon and accuracy effectiveness for the next the turn within combat.
Iceman wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:03 am Would this be something you choose for all your ships, for each task force, or for each ship individually?
All of the above ideally. Same would apply to movements too?
Iceman wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:03 am Veteran 7% 8%
Elite 8% 7%
Legendary 9% 6%

Would there be a problem with this? I mean the bonus being larger than the penalty.
My numbers were just an example. It should be configurable at the end of the day anyway.

How many turns should be allow during combat? 5 like for system assaults? Will it be configurable?
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Iceman »

I was wondering, shouldn't the Attack/Defense/Normal modifications be the effects of the types of movements?
Like, ships on Assault would be set to Attack, Harry to Defense, etc.
Probably better yet, not have these modifiers explicitly, but each movement type having its own bonus and penalty; Ram for instance could have something like -50% weapons (or no torpedoes fired), +30% shields.
I'm thinking that in large battles, settings these modifiers individually might be a bit of an hassle...

I guess 5 rounds would be a good starting point. If we find it too short, we can increase it.
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Danijel »

I'm slightly confused here,...what u guys mean by 5 turns?
isnt it fight till the end,...
i set my army what to do for the turn, you set yours, and we both click ready, and ,...things happen?

also, there is experience involved with ships already, why not use that "heavily" in combats(maybe even more permanently, on galaxy for speed ie.)? dont set things too static, make them as dynamic as possible(in this manner you force me to keep my unit, not just "trow it" in "tank rush" and hope for overrun), code will have to calculate it in any case.
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Iceman »

Combat does need to have a limit number of rounds, because there are situations where it might never end - when shield recharge is higher than firepower for example. It happens when a scout attacks a Transwarp Hub - the Hub can't kill the scout, the scout can't kill the Hub.

XP is already used in combat for a number of things, namely accuracy, damage control and maneuvrability IIRC.
Bonus to galactic speed and the like will come from Officers, not XP.
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Danijel
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Danijel »

So its a "fix" for an infinite loop? Ai side i assume?

Player will have option for retreat(if player keeps attacks without seeing end, or even reports that as an issue,...welllll :D )?
why not just impose that for Ai(make it count if that attack is viable and achievable win)?

What are "down the road" effects of having massive fight? like 200vs200(more?), interruption every 5 turns for next 50turns or?

If i got how that will work, keep in mind that it will be abusable by player in both sp and mp games, instead of having massive loss during retreat(retreat cant be to just vanish? should have some "exit border"?), it will be an easy way out to save units.
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CaptScarff
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by CaptScarff »

Hi Danijel,

Also think of it like the system assault system. You may not have conquered the system or have the system ready for a troop landing in the first assault.
Plus this allows for reinforcements to arrive in the next turn (if they are close by)

Again the number of rounds for combat should be adjustable. Could be based on participating number of ships?
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Danijel
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Danijel »

Yo!

I was just trying to warp up "why" limit,..but yea, with reinforcements it has sense, and also expands on tactics part of gameplay.

As of number of rounds,...idk, maybe leave that to players as some map option that can be changed/voted(for mp) during game?

I assume you already have idea for "participating number of ships", can you explain what you had in mind, how it should work?
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CaptScarff
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by CaptScarff »

Sorry, but I am going to reset the conversation a little back to the basics just to make sure everything gets covered properly (and I understand everything correctly ;) )

As far as I can tell these are the factors that currently impact the result of combat
  • Shield & Hull Strength
  • Weapons
  • Accuracy
  • Maneuverability/Dodge
These factors seem to work in pairs. E.g. Shield & Hull Strength vs Weapons, Accuracy vs Maneuverability/Dodge

There are also 4 types of weapon:
  • Beam
  • Pulse
  • Torpedo
  • Missile
Depending the type of weapon, does the accuracy go up or down? Does the amount of damage a weapon inflict change based on how well it hit the target?

The following types of combat ship exist as far as I can tell
  • Science
  • Scout
  • Fast Attack
  • Cruiser
  • Heavy Cruiser
  • Strike Cruiser
  • Command
Does the ship type have an effect on combat? E.g. Does a Fast Attack get a bonus attacking a Cruiser and a Cruiser gets a bonus against a Command and a Command then have a bonus against a Fast Attack?

Sorry for all of the questions
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by Iceman »

CaptScarff wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:14 pm As far as I can tell these are the factors that currently impact the result of combat
Correct - I would add shield recharge, and damage control (based on XP).
These factors seem to work in pairs. E.g. Shield & Hull Strength vs Weapons, Accuracy vs Maneuverability/Dodge
Correct.
There are also 4 types of weapon:
Pulse and Missile weapons haven't been implemented (yet).
Depending the type of weapon, does the accuracy go up or down? Does the amount of damage a weapon inflict change based on how well it hit the target?
Yes. Beams are more accurate than torpedoes (which have higher damage) - in fact, they are less affected by the target's maneuverability.
No. Weapons always deal max damage at this point (except for damage control). This can be changed ofc.
The following types of combat ship exist as far as I can tell
IIRC Science ships are not classified as combat ships.
Does the ship type have an effect on combat? E.g. Does a Fast Attack get a bonus attacking a Cruiser and a Cruiser gets a bonus against a Command and a Command then have a bonus against a Fast Attack?
No.
Would the other types also have something similar?
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CaptScarff
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Re: Combat Discussion

Post by CaptScarff »

Does the ship type have an effect on combat? E.g. Does a Fast Attack get a bonus attacking a Cruiser and a Cruiser gets a bonus against a Command and a Command then have a bonus against a Fast Attack?
No.
Would the other types also have something similar?
Yeah, the idea would be to try and make players build diverse fleets made up of different types of ships rather than a single ship type.
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