[Balance] Research speed

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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran »

The huge difference in Science early in BoTf comes mainly from the different starting values of science stations AFAIK/IIRC.
Feds start with 5 built (?) IIRC, Klingons have 2 (?).

So it turns at least 3 turns to "reach" fed research level....of course in the long run this doesnt make too much difference. In BotF even on Largest galaxy map you were in close contact with at least ONE Major before really reaching Full TL4...thus getting "early" fights to be dealt with Destroyers etc.

Btw here is the update on the research times I logged in this game: Reached Turn 240 by now.
Turn 161: Construction 5
Turn 168: Computers 5
Turn 171: Biotech 5
Turn 173: Propulsion 5
Turn 182: Biotech 6
Turn 190: Energy 6
Turn 198: Construction 6
Turn 205: Computers 6
Turn 208: Weapons 6
Turn 210: Propulsion 6
Turn 220: Computers 7
Turn 227: Propulsion 7
Turn 231: Biology 7
Turn 238: Construction 7
Iceman
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

Any feedback on the new numbers, anyone?
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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran »

Sorry I was away last week. And I wont be there next week neither.

Last update probably - as I am looking forward to test the new version. Which means save games are broken.

Here is how far I have gotten: Turn 270

Turn 246: Energy 7
Turn 249: Weapons 7
Turn 254: Weapons 8
Turn 260: Biotech 8
Turn 269: Construction 8

Still no direct contact to any major empire. I think for huge galaxies research speed could still be tuned down by x2.
Iceman
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

Can you check out the new numbers first, please? :razz:
TLs 6+ were increased by a factor of 5. The lower ones, less.
Can't recall which patch it was that introduced that change, but I'm about to upload a new patch that will make things a bit more interesting. :cool: I'll post about it in a minute.
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

Can you also keep tabs on the events that are triggered please? Frequency, effect, ...
So we can determine if they need to be improved - which I'm sure they do.
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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran »

Next game I will.
This game was with Evens disabled anyway ;-)
Stopped logging recruiting though around turn 200
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran »

Next game I will check new numbers first. So wait with more changes until then :-)
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

To the research costs, yes.
But there's still a lot to do, I need to keep making changes :wink:
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran »

So here you go after 122 turns, playing Klingons, Huge, Random Events yes, Research SLOW:

I have deactivated the following:

Animated Stars on Galaxy Map
High quality image scaling
User Interface Antialiasing (this seems to help with the GUI issue a little bit)

Research
14 - Biotech 2
24 - Computers 2
34 - Propulsion 2
44 - Construction 2
54 - Energy 2
55 - Weapons 2
81 - Construction 3
104 - Energy 3
121 - Propulsion 3

Recruitment
16 - Buka'H
30 - Klaang
44 - Vorok
57 - Goroth
71 - Antaak
85 - K'Vagh
106 - Korok

Events
47 - Terrorism prevented in Qo'onos
63 - Duranium Found in Lynsis
75 - Donation
75 - Embezzlement
106 - Terrorism prevented in Qo'onos
117 - Terrorist Attack in Rasalas
118 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'onos

As for the "GUI lagging" - it has gotten a lot better, but its not gone.
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

Man, again with the Huge Slow games? :razz:
What about the CPU usage issue?
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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran »

OK...Update on Progess. Will keep playing the Feb2 version though until next major "release".

Research
14 - Biotech 2
24 - Computers 2
34 - Propulsion 2
44 - Construction 2
54 - Energy 2
55 - Weapons 2
81 - Construction 3
104 - Energy 3
121 - Propulsion 3
134 - Biotech 3
139 - Weapons 3
143 - Computers 3

Agents
16 - 123 Buka'H
30 - 141 Klaang
44 - 146 Vorok
57 - 160 Goroth
71 - Antaak
85 - K'Vagh
106 - Korok

Events
47 - Terrorism prevented in Qo'onos
63 - Duranium Found in Lynsis
75 - Donation
75 - Embezzlement
106 - Terrorism prevented in Qo'onos
117 - Terrorist Attack in Rasalas
118 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'onos
135 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'onos
137 - Terrorist Attack in Sulvin
151 - Earthquake on Beta Ceti
153 - Archaeological Dig in Cassiopeia (+200 Cr)
155 - Alien Fossils in Boraal (+200 Biotech)
163 - Archaeological Dig in Nehru (+200 Cr)

Some things I noticed - not sure if they are "intended" right now or "bugs":

Suliban Cell Ship Image in Encyclopedia, but not in Shipyard build menu
Suliban Cruiser Image in Encyclopedia, but not in Shipyard build menu
Klingon Construction Ship II Image missing (Research matrix & encyclopedia)


As for the Lagging issue and CPU Load:
CPU load is now normal. Not sure what I caused.
Furthermore I now upgraded the Radeon Drivers to Version 20.1.3 WHQL. This version does no longer crash the game when trying to launch (as did the previous versions.

Lagging is now low generally. However I noticed that the lagging occurs in time lapses...thus I monitored FPS counts in game with the new Radeon Overlay Feature.

Apparently SOME intermittent lagging occurs when from time to time the GPU drops into deep idle mode (FPS go down to like 2 FPS)...when it then "wakes" up it lags for a second or two until it normalizes. This might probably be a driver/windows issue.

HOWEVER, this is NOT identical to the more generic laggin which I reported earlier. So this seems to be more or less fixed (at least with the settings I have in game:
Animated Stars on Galaxy Map = OFF
High quality image scaling = OFF
User Interface Antialiasing = OFF
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

Ok, thanks! I just re-released a new patch (fixed a crash) that disables multi-surveying the same anomaly, which obviously has an impact on research. Might want to try this one at some point, with the new TL thresholds.

Wow, you got 3 colonization events in a row... that's some luck. :shock:
I'm planning on adding a couple more, if I get the inspiration to write the texts...

Suliban Cell Ship Image in Encyclopedia, but not in Shipyard build menu
Suliban Cruiser Image in Encyclopedia, but not in Shipyard build menu
Minor race ship models have not been added (yet).
Klingon Construction Ship II Image missing (Research matrix & encyclopedia)
I added that ship recently (and the Dominion one), and there's no model for it. I was hoping someone would find that irritating and come up with a 3D model :grin:

CPU load is now normal. Not sure what I caused.
I did decrease the refresh rate of the galaxy screen in some patch, probably 2feb. Might have been that.
I can revert the change temporarily to check if that was it.

Apparently SOME intermittent lagging occurs when from time to time the GPU drops into deep idle mode (FPS go down to like 2 FPS)...when it then "wakes" up it lags for a second or two until it normalizes. This might probably be a driver/windows issue.
Ok.

HOWEVER, this is NOT identical to the more generic laggin which I reported earlier. So this seems to be more or less fixed (at least with the settings I have in game:
Animated Stars on Galaxy Map = OFF
High quality image scaling = OFF
User Interface Antialiasing = OFF
IIRC you suspect it is related to the antialiasing setting, correct?
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

Here's the status of the game I'm currently playing. Klingons in a Medium @ Normal, currently at turn 103:

Agents
11 - Klaang
23 - Bu'kaH
36 - Korok
51 - K'Vagh
66 - Goroth
77 - Antaak

Tech
26 - all 2
63 - all 3
103 - all 4

Contact
88 - (Feds - Scout destroyed, no 1st contact)
89 - Roms
102 - Feds

Just reached TL4. Progress to TL5 seems to follow the same rate. I'm racking 1445 RPs/turn.

I have 13 colonies, 3 of them with a shipyard. I have subjugated 2 minor races (t51 J'naii and t88 Ventaxians), and have just contacted the Andorians - trading with them, for now anyway.
The AIs were not so lucky in their starting positions: Roms have 4 colonies, Feds have 9, Cards have 7 and Dom has 2 (TGL and a 30 pop system... lots of empty space around TGL). I'm about to "sandwich" the Roms by using a Wormhole that crosses their territory to colonize on the other side of it.
9k in my treasury, +300/turn.
No events yet, no crashes, everything is really smooth so far. The pace seems very comfortable to me.
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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran »

You are researching quite slowly I must say.

My current game is again with klingons on huge + slow

Core Game Version 2020.02.14
Patches 17Feb, 19Feb, 24Feb, 27Feb, 01Mar

Settings:
Disabled "Show animated stars on galaxy map"
Disabled "Use high quality image scaling"
Disabled "Enable user interface antialiasing"
Disabled "Dialog Animations" => seems to reduce choppiness in summary menu AND when bringing up the right click menu.

Game Settings (from top to bottom)
Huge, Irregular, Medium, Medium, Early, Some, Canon, Slow, Default, Yes, No, Normal

Klingon Empire

Research
12 - Biotech 2
21 - Computers 2
29 - Propulsion 2
37 - Construction 2
45 - Energy 2
53 - Weapons 2
74 - Construction 3
93 - Biotech 3
109 - Energy 3
117 - Computers 3
124 - Propulsion 3
131 - Weapons 3
151 - Propulsion 4
171 - Computers 4
181 - Biotech 4


Agents
25 - 178 Korok
43 - Klaang
65 - Goroth
85 - K'Vagh
105 - Buka'H
124 - Antaak
145 - Vorok

Events

33 - Domestic Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
49 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
55 - Domestic Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
56 - Geological Survey on Vico (+181 Duranium)
71 - Domestic Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
75 - Embezzlement (-184 Credits)
81 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
91 - Domestic Terrorism in Vico (4 Structures destroyed)
97 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
110 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Dnoces
114 - Donation (+192 Credits)
131 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
136 - Domestic Terrorism in Zeta Ceti (4 Structures destroyed)
144 - Religious Holiday in Alpha Ophiuchi
152 - Solar Flare in Alpha Ophiuchi
153 - Domestic Terrorism in Asimov (3 Structures destroyed)
180 - Commercial Terrorism prevented in Qo'nos
182 - Plague in Gamma Virginis (25 Mio. Dead)

Save Game Button is ALWAYS greyed out.
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman »

Iscaran wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:29 pm You are researching quite slowly I must say.
Not sure what you mean... I'm researching at (~exactly) double your rate, when now Normal is ~1.5 * Slow (1.0 vs 0.65). So I don't understand your comment.

53 - Weapons 2 (t26, ~1/2)
131 - Weapons 3 (t63, ~1/2)

:?:
Unless you modded Slow back to 0.5, or lower?

I'm keeping Intel at 105 in most of my colonies. No Intel events yet (or any other for that matter).
My current game is again with klingons on huge + slow
Sigh. :wink:
How's the pace for you, on Slow?
Core Game Version 2020.02.14
Patches 17Feb, 19Feb, 24Feb, 27Feb, 01Mar
You should use 7mar+, the IndexedCollection crashes have been addressed in those. And savegames should be compatible.
Disabled "Dialog Animations" => seems to reduce choppiness in summary menu AND when bringing up the right click menu.
I always have that one off, it's irritating.
Save Game Button is ALWAYS greyed out.
The only button related issue I have is the Send button in the diplo screen.
(I use CTL+S from the galaxy screen to save the game, not sure if that's relevant)
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