Minor races and terraforming

[erazortt]

I left them alone for 10 rounds. Farming Center is now type 2. They gained 3000 RPs in these 10 rounds.

23:35:05.440 [1] INFO Supremacy.Utility.GameLogManager - Log Initialized.
23:35:27.567 [9] DEBUG General - Deserialized 838,308 bytes of data in 00:00:00.8633919
23:35:28.147 [9] DEBUG General - Serialized 1,080,504 bytes of data in 00:00:00.4418191
23:35:28.867 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 1,080,504 bytes of data in 00:00:00.7058011
23:35:54.696 [13] DEBUG General - Serialized 402 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0007443
23:35:54.701 [15] DEBUG General - Deserialized 402 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0005415
23:35:54.720 [6] INFO General - --------------- TURN 80 ---------------
23:35:55.350 [6] INFO General - Kreetassans Own research 130, Cumulative points 5427
23:35:55.351 [6] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field BioTech Dist 100% Points 130
23:35:55.351 [6] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Computers Dist 0% Points 0
23:35:55.352 [6] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Construction Dist 0% Points 0
23:35:55.352 [6] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Energy Dist 0% Points 0
23:35:55.352 [6] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Propulsion Dist 0% Points 0
23:35:55.352 [6] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Weapons Dist 0% Points 0
23:35:55.353 [6] INFO General - Kreetassans Final Cumulative points 5557
23:35:56.529 [13] DEBUG General - Serialized 456,347 bytes of data in 00:00:00.6586088
23:35:57.507 [5] DEBUG General - Serialized 837,476 bytes of data in 00:00:01.6379333
23:35:58.036 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 456,347 bytes of data in 00:00:01.1452032
23:36:12.224 [9] DEBUG General - Serialized 1,979 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0003268
23:36:12.233 [24] DEBUG General - Deserialized 1,979 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0005222
23:36:12.248 [9] INFO General - --------------- TURN 81 ---------------
23:36:13.634 [9] DEBUG General - Serialized 455,953 bytes of data in 00:00:00.9418577
23:36:14.624 [25] DEBUG General - Serialized 838,194 bytes of data in 00:00:01.9287230
23:36:14.786 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 455,953 bytes of data in 00:00:01.1479515
23:36:18.752 [13] DEBUG General - Serialized 292 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001189
23:36:18.752 [18] DEBUG General - Deserialized 292 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000787
23:36:18.753 [7] INFO General - --------------- TURN 82 ---------------
23:36:19.940 [7] DEBUG General - Serialized 458,701 bytes of data in 00:00:00.7741829
23:36:20.693 [25] DEBUG General - Serialized 841,327 bytes of data in 00:00:01.5169561
23:36:20.775 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 458,701 bytes of data in 00:00:00.8181126
23:36:23.225 [13] DEBUG General - Serialized 292 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001394
23:36:23.226 [17] DEBUG General - Deserialized 292 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000996
23:36:23.226 [5] INFO General - --------------- TURN 83 ---------------
23:36:24.320 [27] DEBUG General - Serialized 457,918 bytes of data in 00:00:00.6904416
23:36:24.761 [11] DEBUG General - Serialized 839,992 bytes of data in 00:00:01.1176661
23:36:25.200 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 457,918 bytes of data in 00:00:00.8448774
23:36:27.535 [26] DEBUG General - Serialized 294 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001110
23:36:27.536 [18] DEBUG General - Deserialized 294 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000815
23:36:27.538 [25] INFO General - --------------- TURN 84 ---------------
23:36:28.524 [25] DEBUG General - Serialized 458,347 bytes of data in 00:00:00.5704530
23:36:29.266 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 458,347 bytes of data in 00:00:00.7361979
23:36:29.384 [11] DEBUG General - Serialized 841,818 bytes of data in 00:00:01.4300542
23:36:36.145 [13] DEBUG General - Serialized 294 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0002201
23:36:36.147 [15] DEBUG General - Deserialized 294 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000937
23:36:36.147 [6] INFO General - --------------- TURN 85 ---------------
23:36:39.343 [26] DEBUG General - Serialized 458,271 bytes of data in 00:00:00.5525961
23:36:40.133 [6] DEBUG General - Serialized 840,976 bytes of data in 00:00:01.3277192
23:36:40.382 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 458,271 bytes of data in 00:00:00.9448643
23:37:08.619 [5] DEBUG General - Serialized 687 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0006675
23:37:08.620 [29] DEBUG General - Deserialized 687 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0005116
23:37:08.623 [5] INFO General - --------------- TURN 86 ---------------
23:37:09.415 [5] DEBUG General - Serialized 459,389 bytes of data in 00:00:00.4366243
23:37:10.527 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 459,389 bytes of data in 00:00:00.9642500
23:37:10.816 [25] DEBUG General - Serialized 842,063 bytes of data in 00:00:01.8377102
23:37:13.100 [5] DEBUG General - Serialized 293 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001201
23:37:13.100 [18] DEBUG General - Deserialized 293 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000740
23:37:13.101 [4] INFO General - --------------- TURN 87 ---------------
23:37:14.382 [4] DEBUG General - Serialized 461,184 bytes of data in 00:00:00.9014903
23:37:14.892 [13] DEBUG General - Serialized 843,836 bytes of data in 00:00:01.4110721
23:37:15.552 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 461,184 bytes of data in 00:00:01.1525586
23:37:18.401 [27] DEBUG General - Serialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001295
23:37:18.401 [29] DEBUG General - Deserialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000834
23:37:18.403 [27] INFO General - --------------- TURN 88 ---------------
23:37:20.308 [27] DEBUG General - Serialized 461,092 bytes of data in 00:00:01.4303996
23:37:21.600 [4] DEBUG General - Serialized 844,230 bytes of data in 00:00:01.9888869
23:37:21.796 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 461,092 bytes of data in 00:00:01.4669029
23:37:24.521 [7] DEBUG General - Serialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001138
23:37:24.522 [18] DEBUG General - Deserialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000815
23:37:24.522 [26] INFO General - --------------- TURN 89 ---------------
23:37:26.318 [26] DEBUG General - Serialized 461,794 bytes of data in 00:00:01.3532071
23:37:28.125 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 461,794 bytes of data in 00:00:01.5683069
23:37:29.583 [26] DEBUG General - Serialized 844,591 bytes of data in 00:00:03.2227690
23:38:00.274 [25] DEBUG General - Serialized 872 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0002473
23:38:00.277 [15] DEBUG General - Deserialized 872 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0003264
23:38:00.278 [4] INFO General - --------------- TURN 90 ---------------
23:38:01.484 [4] DEBUG General - Serialized 463,243 bytes of data in 00:00:00.8152434
23:38:02.338 [7] DEBUG General - Serialized 845,613 bytes of data in 00:00:01.6649292
23:38:02.767 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 463,243 bytes of data in 00:00:01.2589392
23:38:07.472 [5] DEBUG General - Serialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001886
23:38:07.472 [18] DEBUG General - Deserialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0000913
23:38:07.473 [4] INFO General - --------------- TURN 91 ---------------
23:38:07.729 [4] INFO General - Kreetassans Own research 262, Cumulative points 7681
23:38:07.729 [4] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field BioTech Dist 0% Points 0
23:38:07.730 [4] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Computers Dist 0% Points 0
23:38:07.730 [4] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Construction Dist 0% Points 0
23:38:07.730 [4] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Energy Dist 0% Points 0
23:38:07.730 [4] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Propulsion Dist 100% Points 262
23:38:07.730 [4] WARN General - Kreetassans - Field Weapons Dist 0% Points 0
23:38:07.733 [4] INFO General - Kreetassans Final Cumulative points 7943
23:38:08.698 [4] DEBUG General - Serialized 463,081 bytes of data in 00:00:00.7847040
23:38:09.567 [5] DEBUG General - Serialized 845,661 bytes of data in 00:00:01.6531904
23:38:09.688 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 463,081 bytes of data in 00:00:00.9548959

[erazortt]

I tried again with 20 rounds I see now Type 3 Farming center, Type 2 Machining Plant and type 2 Power plant.
They gained 5000 RPs in these 20 rounds.

[erazortt]

Could you test breaking membership with them and then checking them again (maybe membering them again), to see if they advance (with all those accumulated points) while independent?

I guess that they did not use the RP gain in the time of the membership, but relied on the research after I broke the treaty. Since after 10 rounds they bearly had the farming done, and after 20 they had much more.
Just tried again with leaving them alone for 15 rounds: Type 2 Farming center, Type 2 Machining Plant and type 2 Power plant

[Iceman]

Uploaded a new patch that should fix this. It was a pending ToDo... they were not re-allocating distributions.

[Iceman]

Ok if your numbers turn out to be too restrictive, I think a better representaion of an alternative would perhaps be simply:
TC6 1.0
TC5 0.9
TC4 0.8
TC3 0.7
TC2 0.6
TC1 0.5

The problem I see with this is that a Primitive with 6 labs will produce more research than a TC5 with 3 - if they're at the same TL, of course, like at the beginning (Early start). But that makes them actually develop faster...

Membered them in turn 41, thay had almost no research done up tp this point.

In my game last night it took them a while to get it going (low starting population, maybe). The first minor to get to full TL2 only got there at turn 68 - curiously they were all TC3 (17.5 RPs/lab).

I tried again with 20 rounds I see now Type 3 Farming center, Type 2 Machining Plant and type 2 Power plant.

No lab or intel upgrades?
Or doesn't the minor have any of those already built? If so, no upgrades would show.

[erazortt]

they were not re-allocating distributions.

I can see them not redistributing the research. But I'm still not getting the building upgrades.

23:07:12.204 [67] INFO General - --------------- TURN 34 ---------------
23:07:12.591 [67] INFO General - Bandi Own research 22, Cumulative points 484
23:07:12.593 [67] WARN General - Bandi - 22 research points in BioTech
23:07:14.090 [67] DEBUG General - Serialized 429,499 bytes of data in 00:00:01.1546948
23:07:15.131 [33] DEBUG General - Serialized 806,889 bytes of data in 00:00:02.1873472
23:07:15.457 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 429,499 bytes of data in 00:00:01.2766803
23:07:42.220 [50] DEBUG General - Serialized 1,191 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0007739
23:07:42.221 [45] DEBUG General - Deserialized 1,191 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0007057
23:07:42.224 [50] INFO General - --------------- TURN 35 ---------------
23:07:42.653 [50] INFO General - Bandi Own research 24, Cumulative points 506
23:07:42.654 [50] WARN General - Bandi - 24 research points in BioTech
23:07:44.585 [50] DEBUG General - Serialized 432,169 bytes of data in 00:00:01.5169577
23:07:45.646 [38] DEBUG General - Serialized 809,711 bytes of data in 00:00:02.5626186
23:07:46.152 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 432,169 bytes of data in 00:00:01.5191636
23:08:10.270 [33] DEBUG General - Serialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0003973
23:08:10.272 [57] DEBUG General - Deserialized 295 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0002280
23:08:10.273 [33] INFO General - --------------- TURN 36 ---------------
23:08:10.724 [33] INFO General - Bandi Own research 24, Cumulative points 530
23:08:10.725 [33] WARN General - Bandi - 24 research points in Computers
23:08:12.341 [33] DEBUG General - Serialized 432,808 bytes of data in 00:00:01.2981246
23:08:13.443 [50] DEBUG General - Serialized 810,463 bytes of data in 00:00:02.3905679
23:08:13.551 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 432,808 bytes of data in 00:00:01.2055191
23:09:38.575 [24] DEBUG General - Serialized 294 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001717
23:09:38.576 [42] DEBUG General - Deserialized 294 bytes of data in 00:00:00.0001453
23:09:38.577 [24] INFO General - --------------- TURN 37 ---------------
23:09:38.978 [24] INFO General - Bandi Own research 24, Cumulative points 554
23:09:38.979 [24] WARN General - Bandi - 24 research points in Computers
23:09:40.794 [67] DEBUG General - Serialized 433,728 bytes of data in 00:00:01.4655091
23:09:41.952 [51] DEBUG General - Serialized 810,828 bytes of data in 00:00:02.5967266
23:09:42.121 [ClientEventLoop] DEBUG General - Deserialized 433,728 bytes of data in 00:00:01.2610971

[erazortt]

The problem I see with this is that a Primitive with 6 labs will produce more research than a TC5 with 3 - if they're at the same TL, of course, like at the beginning (Early start). But that makes them actually develop faster...

Yes I think 0.5 is indeed too high for TC1.

Perhaps (TC+2)/8?
TC6 1
TC5 0.875
TC4 0.75
TC3 0.625
TC2 0.5
TC1 0.375

[Iceman]

That's almost my table

I'm not sure why non-independent minors seem not to be finishing research projects.

[erazortt]

What is the plan for the home systems of all the races? Did we say that all TC5 get only tiny systems, TC4 somewhat bigger and so one until TC living in really big systems. So will only the TC level determine the system size?

[Iceman]

Some of the homesystems are canon, so I guess there isn't much we can do about those.
There are also a few homesystems that are "special" (homeplanet bombarded, or a tiny Oceanic, ...).

The higher TCs should get smaller systems in general, yes, but I'd go with a minimum of 120 or 180, which is max pop for Medium or Large Ideal planets IIRC - for single planet homesystems. Or even 250 for Huge.

Are you going to use Notepad++ to edit the files?


--

I'm still looking into the minors advancement issue, I think it may have to do with their research queue being empty when they're not independent.

But I've already implemented a couple of the other requests. Will do a few more and release a new patch.

[erazortt]

Some of the homesystems are canon, so I guess there isn't much we can do about those.
There are also a few homesystems that are "special" (homeplanet bombarded, or a tiny Oceanic, ...).

So I would first go to these civs which have random systems. I wouldn't touch those which have all the planets set.
Is there actually a good only db with all Star Trek civs?
250 for Huge.

Are you going to use Notepad++ to edit the files?

yeah I guess so, would you suggest something else?

[erazortt]

I'm still looking into the minors advancement issue, I think it may have to do with their research queue being empty when they're not independent.

What I also find weird is that whenever they join, there is never something currently being in the middle of being build. No ships (even if they had just been building them in masses) and no building currently being constructed.

[Iceman]

I'm still looking into the minors advancement issue, I think it may have to do with their research queue being empty when they're not independent.

What I also find weird is that whenever they join, there is never something currently being in the middle of being build. No ships (even if they had just been building them in masses) and no building currently being constructed.

I cleared the build queues Can't recall if it was only for subjugation, or membership too.

Is there actually a good only db with all Star Trek civs?

There are a couple, but I'll have to check.
Memory Alpha can be helpful too.

yeah I guess so, would you suggest something else?

Nope, it's fine.

[erazortt]

I cleared the build queues Can't recall if it was only for subjugation, or membership too.

I'd guess is being done for membership too, and I'd argue it shoudn't be done there

[Iceman]

Fixed. Needs to be tested, especially the empty build queue SitReps.

I'm trying to process all the information in these threads, but it's going to be slow. I may take some time to reply and/or address some of the issues/ideas.