Minor races conquering vs membership

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Spocks-cuddly-tribble
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Re: Minor races conquering vs membership

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble »

Iceman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:36 pmBTW, in BotF IIRC membership grants a +15 morale bonus to the colony
My old notes say so: viewtopic.php?p=33859#p33859

But that's a temporary local bonus, I don't recall how subjugation of minor races affects base morale (usually set from a 'controlling empire' table in race.rst IIRC).
Iceman wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:36 pmThe Feds do have a +1 Morale Empire-Wide building, at TL5 IIRC. All empires actually, except the Cards (which have an universal +2), and now the Dominion (which got a +2 Morale instead in Links). The Feds also have the Private Farms
There was also a conversation on correcting building stats (mainly minor race special structures IIRC), I don't recall where.

Many building stats in BotF appear unbalanced and just unfinished (including discrepancies between files).

In ECM we can't fix them due to missing correction guidelines, but you guys have more freedom.

Some examples:

- almost all klingon special structures are set to one-per-empire, not home system
- extreme energy costs for eg. Singularity Plant & some cardassian special structures like Obsidian Order (they have too few of them btw)
- some kinda useless minor-race buildings (energy cost, unfitting bonus output, build cost eg. Mintaka Farm)


Also if I missed any questions wrt minor races vs difficulty level I'd need a reminder link to it.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Minor races conquering vs membership

Post by Iceman »

Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:53 pm But that's a temporary local bonus, I don't recall how subjugation of minor races affects base morale (usually set from a 'controlling empire' table in race.rst IIRC).
Supremacy simplified that part, there's no such table. There's a bit more than 30 minors :wink:

- almost all klingon special structures are set to one-per-empire, not home system
I kept those for 2 reasons:
- so that the Klingons have more flexibility in terms of energy in Qo'noS (though in Supremacy they have Praxis to help with that)
- so that they can rebuild them elsewhere if Qo'noS falls

Nope, not being partial here :twisted:

- extreme energy costs for eg. Singularity Plant & some cardassian special structures like Obsidian Order (they have too few of them btw)
Singularity Plant was one of the first buildings in which I lowered the energy cost; it is still somewhat high (500 instead of 800) so that it almost requires a dedicated colony (not sure if that was the original intent).
Obsidian Order is a bit steep too, yes. I guess to hamper Cardassia (the system) in everything but Intel.

- some kinda useless minor-race buildings (energy cost, unfitting bonus output, build cost eg. Mintaka Farm)
They tried to cover a wide range of bonuses with the 30 minors (Construction research for the Bandi? :???: ).
The Mintakans are primitive, there's little that they can offer an advanced civilization :wink:
Some high energy costs might have been on purpose, to sink pop into energy production and thus prevent the minor race from having high outputs in other production types. I tried to do that in Supremacy (which didn't always work because only a few homesystems do actually have a fixed configuration).
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Re: Minor races conquering vs membership

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble »

Iceman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:16 pmSupremacy simplified that part, there's no such table. There's a bit more than 30 minors :wink:
One could implement a simplified table reading the base-morale via minor personality vs controlling empire (if desired).

In BotF the minor start morale is re-set after each subjugation/membership via base morale (race.rst table) +15 membership resp -20 subjugation. The base morale should be the same in both cases :???: , the only deviation being the -1 turn penalty for subjugation.

Diplomatic default sympathy/attitude is also a custom value for each empire/minor.

Iceman wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:16 pmThey tried to cover a wide range of bonuses with the 30 minors (Construction research for the Bandi? :???: ).
The Mintakans are primitive, there's little that they can offer an advanced civilization :wink:
Actually the did not, many output types are used for multiple minors while other unused or more fitting output types aren't used at all.

I think you already corrected some odd values (e.g. Pakled 150 energy for 50 research).

Mintaka is about stats (cost 2000 and efficiency +100% seems too hight for their industry/tech traits)
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Minor races conquering vs membership

Post by Iceman »

Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:38 am One could implement a simplified table reading the base-morale via minor personality vs controlling empire (if desired).
True, that would be only a 9x5 matrix (not counting the Borg) :wink:
There would probably be some weird cases, but it would be an easier implementation.

In BotF the minor start morale is re-set after each subjugation/membership via base morale (race.rst table) +15 membership resp -20 subjugation. The base morale should be the same in both cases :???: , the only deviation being the -1 turn penalty for subjugation.
Yes, but not in Supremacy. "Base" morale is always 100, and the meter is simply adjusted whenever a morale event is triggered.

Diplomatic default sympathy/attitude is also a custom value for each empire/minor.
In Supremacy it is hardcoded, comparing traits of empire and minor.

Actually the did not, many output types are used for multiple minors while other unused or more fitting output types aren't used at all.
There's roughly 2 minors for each bonus, except for the +%(field)Research (1 each), +%ResearchEW (3 or 4), a couple bonuses for 1 minor only, and all the Intel related ones which are mostly 1 of each (but kind of overlap). Seems like evenly spread out to me :razz: As much as possible I mean.
Besides "universal" bonuses (+Dilithium, +ScanRange, etc), some of the rest are sort of empire specific, like +Shipbuilding for the Feds, the trade related ones for the Ferengi.

Which ones do you find more fitting, and where?

I think you already corrected some odd values (e.g. Pakled 150 energy for 50 research).
Yep.

Mintaka is about stats (cost 2000 and efficiency +100% seems too hight for their industry/tech traits)
If they were not allowed to have anything other than Primitive Farms, it might make some sense.
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