Starting a new thread for feedback on the current state of diplomacy, with all the changes being made.
If you guys can stress test the whole thing, please post your feedback here, so we can better track the issues.
Latest changes include:
breaking specific agreements
offer/request resources
pact durations
ceding contested territory option
Check if the effects are working, and if not, please describe the problem as accurately as possible. Savegames might also help.
Any UI issues are also game.
Note: the Inbox still does not show proposals made by AI civs. That will be fixed in a few days.
Diplomacy - testing
Moderators: thunderchero, Iceman
Re: Diplomacy - testing
Cede territory is not working yet.
Should we allow requesting resources from minor civs
Feels like a potential exploit.
Offering resources to a minor civ that has no use for them (has no ship designs) should not have any effect Or result in an automatic non-acceptance
I've noticed a few minor details, will fix.
Should we allow requesting resources from minor civs
Feels like a potential exploit.Offering resources to a minor civ that has no use for them (has no ship designs) should not have any effect
Or result in an automatic non-acceptance I've noticed a few minor details, will fix.
Re: Diplomacy - testing
Requests, yea,...both ways,...you can degrade relations massively then.
Its what usually happens in most other games, any "your demand" is penalized on relation(heavy), could loose up to 80%(usually less than 50%) "standings" with minor, talking still bout most other rts games where "demands" are made by player, its less penalized(light-10-20%) if you dont meet what AI demanded from you.
This should also have heavier impact on races like romulan, klingons(degrade relation even faster/easier),...and other ones who "hate" any form of rejecting/ignoring their demands (% are used in manner if your standing to that race is at max)
Are standings only "positive" or they can go in "negative" numbers also?
Too many races, should prolly be auto rejected, easier for gameplay, and less confusing for new player
Its what usually happens in most other games, any "your demand" is penalized on relation(heavy), could loose up to 80%(usually less than 50%) "standings" with minor, talking still bout most other rts games where "demands" are made by player, its less penalized(light-10-20%) if you dont meet what AI demanded from you.
This should also have heavier impact on races like romulan, klingons(degrade relation even faster/easier),...and other ones who "hate" any form of rejecting/ignoring their demands (% are used in manner if your standing to that race is at max)
Are standings only "positive" or they can go in "negative" numbers also?
Too many races, should prolly be auto rejected, easier for gameplay, and less confusing for new player
Re: Diplomacy - testing
Changes in today's patch:
Breaking some agreements should now cause drops in both Regard and Trust. For now, it's a static drop, but it will eventually depend on some factors. Only Membership and Offer/Request Credits/Resources have an effect for now.
The Cardassians and the Feds double the Trust penalty they get for breaking agreements. Isolationist minors also double the Trust penalty when an empire breaks membership with them.
Breaking an Offer/Request Credits/Resources agreement can also have a positive impact if you break a request you made (thus ending the payment prematurely).
The AI now takes into account all credits offers it made during a turn to determine if it can make more offers that turn. It was being too generous...
You should now be able to see and accept/reject proposals made by the AI. Please check.
Breaking some agreements should now cause drops in both Regard and Trust. For now, it's a static drop, but it will eventually depend on some factors. Only Membership and Offer/Request Credits/Resources have an effect for now.
The Cardassians and the Feds double the Trust penalty they get for breaking agreements. Isolationist minors also double the Trust penalty when an empire breaks membership with them.
Breaking an Offer/Request Credits/Resources agreement can also have a positive impact if you break a request you made (thus ending the payment prematurely).
The AI now takes into account all credits offers it made during a turn to determine if it can make more offers that turn. It was being too generous...
You should now be able to see and accept/reject proposals made by the AI. Please check.
Re: Diplomacy - testing
In the 22jun patch, breaking any agreement should impact relations.
Please check if the effects (Regard/Trust , plus Morale) are working, and if they are balanced.
Right now, breaking any agreement produces the same penalty for Regard and for Trust - this should probably be adjusted, suggestions are welcome!
Regard/Trust penalties, in order of magnitude:
Alliance, Mutual Defense
Membership
Affiliation, Cease-Fire, War Pact
Open Borders
Offer Credits/Resources (these will eventually be determined by remaning duration and amount of credits/resources)
When breaking agreements, the Cardassians will get a higher Trust penalty, and the Federation a higher Regard penalty.
Breaking agreements with Isolationist minors will cause increase the Regard and Trust penalties.
Feedback is welcome, and ideas on how to make this better too!
Please check if the effects (Regard/Trust , plus Morale) are working, and if they are balanced.
Right now, breaking any agreement produces the same penalty for Regard and for Trust - this should probably be adjusted, suggestions are welcome!
Regard/Trust penalties, in order of magnitude:
Alliance, Mutual Defense
Membership
Affiliation, Cease-Fire, War Pact
Open Borders
Offer Credits/Resources (these will eventually be determined by remaning duration and amount of credits/resources)
When breaking agreements, the Cardassians will get a higher Trust penalty, and the Federation a higher Regard penalty.
Breaking agreements with Isolationist minors will cause increase the Regard and Trust penalties.
Feedback is welcome, and ideas on how to make this better too!
Re: Supremacy new release
I proposed a territory cession, but together with some money, deliberately, proposing a membership treaty. Difficult to estimate an influence of both conditions but the treaty was established.
I propose to exclude the cession option from the membership proposal as in fact it is costless.
I propose to exclude the cession option from the membership proposal as in fact it is costless.
Re: Supremacy new release
You have a point, yes. Doesn't make sense to be able to Offer/Request Cede Territory with Membership - or any other Treaty (Affiliation, Mutual Defense, Alliance) in fact.
edit: there might need to be a distinction between Affiliation with a minor or with an empire
For Pacts (Open Borders, Cease-Fire, War Pact), since they're limited in duration, maybe it makes sense to keep Cede Territory
Cede Territory doesn't yet have an influence in the acceptance/rejection of proposals, I was actually thinking about precisely that - we now have the tools, I think, to implement that, so it should be coming soon. At least the amount of ceded sectors; the importance of those sectors, that's another story...
edit: there might need to be a distinction between Affiliation with a minor or with an empire
For Pacts (Open Borders, Cease-Fire, War Pact), since they're limited in duration, maybe it makes sense to keep Cede Territory
Cede Territory doesn't yet have an influence in the acceptance/rejection of proposals, I was actually thinking about precisely that - we now have the tools, I think, to implement that, so it should be coming soon. At least the amount of ceded sectors; the importance of those sectors, that's another story...
Re: Supremacy new release
In the new patch(es). I set them at 25 Regard per sector IIRC.Iceman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:27 am Cede Territory doesn't yet have an influence in the acceptance/rejection of proposals, I was actually thinking about precisely that - we now have the tools, I think, to implement that, so it should be coming soon. At least the amount of ceded sectors; the importance of those sectors, that's another story...
All the modifiers for offers/requests need to be tested (preferably separately) and balanced.
Re: Diplomacy - testing
Ignoring a proposal will be in the next patch, so we need to figure out what should happen in those cases.
We talked about a smaller, temporary penalty to relations; but that might just make ignoring proposals be the best option when you do not want to accept them - making rejecting proposals kind of moot.
Now, rejecting *treaties* carries a morale penalty, so adding a regard penalty on top of that might be overkill. Maybe the regardpenalty should be applied only when ignoring proposals You're kind of being "rude", so...
What about gifts, and requests, and demands/threats These do not have a morale penalty when rejected.
Should empires and minors be treated differently in this matter
We talked about a smaller, temporary penalty to relations; but that might just make ignoring proposals be the best option when you do not want to accept them - making rejecting proposals kind of moot.
Now, rejecting *treaties* carries a morale penalty, so adding a regard penalty on top of that might be overkill. Maybe the regardpenalty should be applied only when ignoring proposals
You're kind of being "rude", so...What about gifts, and requests, and demands/threats
These do not have a morale penalty when rejected.Should empires and minors be treated differently in this matter
Re: Diplomacy - testing
Should probably be at minimum the same as rejecting. Worse in some cases, depending on the proposal and civs involved (ie some may take ignoring them very seriously, others might not care).
Re: Diplomacy - testing
A couple more questions:
Should accepting or rejecting a Cease-Fire have an effect on (global) Morale (SignPeaceTreaty and RejectPeaceTreaty respectively)
Right now you get the SignAlliance (global) Morale effect when signing a Mutual Defense Treaty and an Alliance Treaty. This means you can get it twice if you sign MD and then Alliance. Should we just apply it once, that is, if you come from a MD and get an Alliance you do not get it again (if you go straight for an Alliance you only get it once)
Should accepting or rejecting a Cease-Fire have an effect on (global) Morale (SignPeaceTreaty and RejectPeaceTreaty respectively)
Right now you get the SignAlliance (global) Morale effect when signing a Mutual Defense Treaty and an Alliance Treaty. This means you can get it twice if you sign MD and then Alliance. Should we just apply it once, that is, if you come from a MD and get an Alliance you do not get it again
(if you go straight for an Alliance you only get it once)