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ruthlessferengi
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Post by ruthlessferengi » Thu May 22, 2008 10:51 pm

JBL,
yes - the first thing i do when i swindle a large bribe from ferengi (that could be anywere from 10,000 to 300,000) is to spend it... i immediately invest it as it is liable to get taken....

partial builds work very well

yes, klingon heavy cruiser - is a beast.... with cloak, despite somewhat lowish shields, it is very effective, but when upgraded to II - at speed 3 and brutal armamentarium - it is totally illegally indecent as to how much damage it can inflict... overall, while klings have poor intel, they have robust morale, quick TTs, and awesome destroyers - cheap and virtually undestructable... dream race:) so in mp, a bunch of spy ships and a few HC - will make the difference...

cardies are prbably the only race that can counteract klings - and that's primarily by intel... their ships are slow but sturdy - hull best in the game...
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Post by stardust » Fri May 23, 2008 3:49 am

I've never had to face the Kvort II's in Sp, mainly because the Kling research is naff and the AI never seems to get round to upgrading them.
it takes me ages to get the things myself unlesss i'm lucky and have the Tamarians, Trill, Caldonians and Pakleds near my home system...(it's happened once :Lol:)

when i'm dealing with a cloaked fleet i generally go with the rule of doubling whatever force they have so it's impossible for them to wipe out so many ships you can't mass a counter attack. At worse you end up evenly matched after their opening salvo.
Trouble is, it's a fine line between having enough ships to implement this and having so many the cloaked masses just slink right off instead of opening fire.
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ruthlessferengi
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Post by ruthlessferengi » Fri May 23, 2008 7:25 am

re-arranged build order quickly remedies the situation - makes for a "funner" sp with AI HC II hanging around...:) gets right lively...
Relevance is a post hoc phenomenon

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Post by jonboylondon » Fri May 23, 2008 7:36 pm

ruthlessferengi wrote:JBL,
yes - the first thing i do when i swindle a large bribe from ferengi (that could be anywere from 10,000 to 300,000) is to spend it... i immediately invest it as it is liable to get taken....
Cool 8) - On impossible though they tell you to bog off so really i employ the 250-500 per turn. This is why playing the cardies is quite a challenge on t4555!!! Your ships are pants......... 8O
ruthlessferengi wrote:yes, klingon heavy cruiser - is a beast.... with cloak, despite somewhat lowish shields, it is very effective, but when upgraded to II - at speed 3 and brutal armamentarium - it is totally illegally indecent as to how much damage it can inflict... overall, while klings have poor intel, they have robust morale, quick TTs, and awesome destroyers - cheap and virtually undestructable... dream race:) so in mp, a bunch of spy ships and a few HC - will make the difference...
What tech level is this, what AI setting,How many races and what size uni?

I ask this cause the klingons have the HC advantage at t5 having the ship and being so close to HCII.....

I also seem to seeing a few raised eyebrows when hosting..selecting my usual settings T5small/irreg/imp/rand on/many minors?

Also - i curious as well as this is the setting i really favour......

Does diplomacy not count at the above settings?

As feds ferengi you can always get some minor bashing away new ships-flog then buy at HQ? Hey presto quick two pips ships?? Expands two new trade routes?Increases population for more ships

Or is this and so many other little tricks just a complete fairycake - and cause its gonna be a "Blitzkreig" - the numbers always mean klingons gonna win? Straight as that... regardless of tech/minors/size.....

ruthlessferengi wrote: cardies are prbably the only race that can counteract klings - and that's primarily by intel... their ships are slow but sturdy - hull best in the game...
Can you elaborate? Is it simplly that they fare better against a klingon human MP fight as they can absorb the first barrage? And also the multidirectional firing...
Also is it again simply that the sheer volume of their intel attacks that slow or the stealing of Military ships,or the fundage nicking or is there another little trick a vet SP but newbie MP might miss?

Or

Might you not want to tell? :wink:

All the best

JBL
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ruthlessferengi
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Post by ruthlessferengi » Sat May 24, 2008 12:02 am

JBL,

the way you get large bribes from the ferengi, or feds, or occasionally roms or cardies, is by parking a sizable fleet within the scan horizon of their territory, then demand... if they fail to give in, you move in and raid a bit, destroy a few starbases, wipe out their fleet, but never take out there planets... if another race declares war on that race, the AI will sue for peace, and that's where chance comes in - you can get an incredible amount of cash... 500 a turn, with all due respect, are peanuts, so ask for more... after they gave all they have (or some), then take their planets..


AI does not make HC as klings... you need 3 levels of tech to 9...

unless you change build order, so for tourney purpose, if we want some action from AI instead of "roll over and take me" i suggest we switch the build order... you get klings on level 5...

small galaxy makes for fastest action but does not really let you research a bit and expand. more like a bar fight, and in most of mps folk like to play out the vulcan encounter and captan picard crap before they decide to go murdersome.. :)

diplomacy is primitive, and the harder the level the more cash AI will require to bribe minors and the less transgression on your part would precipitate an all out universal war... i think "diplomacy" in Botf as far as AI is concerned is misnomer... in mp, well, you make it whatever you want it to be...


i am not sure what your mean in your minors comment .... i do know that you want to assimilate (ideally bribe) at turn 100 or later if you want healthy booming happy economy - and minors are key to winning at tech 1-3 games - if you need range or dil - then by all means, invading them at turn 10 is very reasonable... infatuated minors are capable of turning out impressive economic output, so i try to woo them... in mp, that depends - on your small uni setting it won't work. great for epics..

cardies -- if used well, they can sabotage your entire industrial effort into cosmic dust... i remember a game i played vs quakedevil - i met him (cardie) at turn 10, at turn 15 he blew up my HC (i was kling), at turn 20 he stole one, then he kept destroying my single dil plant one turn before i completed a HC forcing me to scrap it and build a new dil... at turn 30 he had a small fleet and I had nothing - so i was utterly dwarfed:)

their ships are slow, but hull is the best in the game - carrries your far... HC and battlecruiser combo is dreadful combination, that even kling HC II have to respect... as far as multidirectionality in firing is concerned - lots been written on old forums = i don't particularly put to much money on that - many claimed other races can fire backwards = i don't think it changes much. correct me if i am wrong...

as far as the balance of intel for most opitmal sabotage settting... that's for you to find out:) do a little experiment, hook up a coupld of pc, lan it and see what happens:)
Relevance is a post hoc phenomenon

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Post by stardust » Sat May 24, 2008 2:36 am

I've seen Federation ships fire Phasers backwards more times than i can remember but that's in keeping with their abilities in the TV series.

as for the Klingons, one day i'll not only change the shiplist so they do build the things but i'll also lower the tech requirements for the upgrade so they start off with the things on T5. prob do the same with the feds so i get to see the AI wield Sovereigns and defiants from the kick off :lol:

there little in this game more satisfying than being able to sit back and watch your intel ruin an empire to the point it's colonies start rebelling. Only way to top that is if the target of this chaos is the cards :lol: i don't think the AI quite knew how to handle my Romulan empire with 16,000 intel points at my command, took me 200 turns to build that up mid tough.
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Post by Flocke » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:37 pm

Dunno why I got it wrong, but I changed my firewall settings to log all possible botf connections and saw that it's 2300 TCP, 2350 UDP and 47624 UDP botf is using and not 47624 TCP.
Has it been my fault or did I just copy and pasted it wrong? Or is it my firewall only logging the udp connection on that port?

@trev, your first post tells about 47624 TCP instead of UDP as well for directip, plz correct it (or me) :lol: :oops:

I saw botf connecting to my router ip on port 2234 UDP as well, dunno why and if that's any important but it never has been a different ip than my router itself which has been adressed.

Other applications that seem to be related to botf connections are ewarzone, dplaysvr.exe and System Idle Process (maybe only cause my comodo firewall doesn't detect it always as being botf).

Only system idle process connected on port 47624 TCP once (not in any recent game). Dunno if that had to do anything with botf, but ip has been an botf opponent (I'm quite sure).

Warzone itself does use two non-directplay ports (port 80 TCP and 27406 TCP) that could be relevant for the application itself but don't seem to be botf related. With allowing the aplication in firewall there should be no problem connecting to warzone server and joining a lobby or any other.

But I didn't find any botf related connection beside the ports 2234 UDP, 2300 TCP, 2350 UDP, 47624 UDP (and possibly 47624 TCP).
In my router I'm fine with forwarding the ports 2300, 2350 and 47624 all TCP and UDP cause my router configuration doesn't have an option to differentiate between protocols. For testing purposes I forwarded the ports 2300 to 2350 + 2400 + 47624 but it didn't make any difference.

Important is of course that I'm only talking about the destination ports! Packages can be sent from any source port as far as my firewall logs are telling.

All these connection troubles make me sad...
good that I have none :)

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Post by trevtones » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:00 pm

Are you sure 47624 is supposed to be UDP or not? :lol:

What if I say just open it for both to be safe....but it works when it's just opened for TCP.
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Post by Flocke » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:14 pm

I don't know if it's supposed to be UDP but it's getting logged as UDP in my firewall logs :lol:

As far as I heared (not tested myself yet) port 47624 is only needed for hosting anyway...

But now I have a new hope: wippien http://wippien.com/, a free open-source p2p vpn im client based upon jabber http://www.jabber.org/clients/wippien and wodVPN that tunnels allowed Jabber contacts (and through jabber connected ICQ, MSN, AIM, Yahoo,... contacts) to LAN.
It seems to be easy configurable and much more stable than hamachi as far as I have read in the internet so far.
I'll give it a try soon and hopefully it's really that good they are telling about. :D
Last edited by Flocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by RSE_Chris » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:06 am

Update on Wippien: I tried it today, in preperation for another try at getting the game to work with NH for the tourney match and there is a problem for Vista 64 bit OS users.

Vista 64 bit requires another adaptor download for the 64-bit, but it has to be certified with a signature otherwise Vista won't allow it, and of course, it does not have such a signature. This means if you have Vista 64-bit then the program won't work. Doh!

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Post by Flocke » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:38 am

damn vista 64bit :lol:

But I searched the wippien forum and that is what I got about: http://wippien.com/forum.php?action=vie ... 1182934220

There may be other solutions in the web, but I can understand that such a non-commercial open-source project doesn't want to pay 500$ each year for a certificate. More on the subject of PIC certificate requirement for vista 64bit drivers for example here: http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?article=435

So that's a problem to all driver developing open-source communities I think.
Another reason not to install vista 64bit :P

p.s. maybe I'll test wippien today or on weekend - if there's someone who likes to test with me, I may be found on warzone :)

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Post by RSE_Chris » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:58 am

Ah.

I have also found this website which best describes how to disable the certificate check on Vista 64 bit, either permanently or just for each session:

http://www.coderjournal.com/2007/07/how ... vista-x64/

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Post by Flocke » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:41 pm

I have tested it with chris -> didn't get it installed with vista 64bit
tested it with carcher -> black ip, ping and explore ok but didn't get botf working
tested it with Zen -> got it installed but not working correct on vista 32bit

Forget about wippien, it seems to be even more worse than hamachi or warzone. :cry:

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Post by carcher » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:03 pm

yeah we gave it a good few tries,but no luck,very frustrating but it was worth a try.
for the world is hollow and i have touched the sky....and one day mickar.....one day.....one sweet day......HAS ARRIVED!! HAPPY DAYS :D

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Post by trevtones » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:23 pm

Maybe some people who cant use warzone would like to try KALI.

I've never used it but it's another alternative and it still SUPPORTS BotF.

Does anybody know if you can still play without paying for it.
Don't let your reach exceed your grasp! :mad:

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