Early on, getting established

[count23]

Ok, So i've seen you guys play some speed games in BOTF, really impressive stuff. Personally, the game style i've seen with everyone i've ever played with has taken about 100-150 turns before there is any sort of resonable force out there to start assaulting planets and whatnot.

How do you folks get your fleets up so fast? I am familiar with the "high morale, high production, high dilithum" output method that's been used before, I'm not a big fan of it cause if you fail (in MP in particular) you get steamrolled down the track when your colonies can't keep up technologically.

Secondly, how exactly do you go about conquering other planets so fast? Particular in mod games like UDM and BOP where the AI get wise and build orbitals faster, a fleet of 18 destroyers would die against 7 planetary batteries and MAYBE take 2 or 3 batteries out at once. That's 9, or 6 turns depending on how many ship production worlds you have, all gone in a flash.

Vanilla is a little easier, AI only ever build a few orbital batteries at most on worlds that arent AI or home, and seem to not power them at all. So my question is, do you folks really attack early on with destroyers and whatnot or do you wait until you get cruisers.

Do you pump heaps into reserach at the beginning or just focus on 1 particular research field?

[mickar]

In UDM, the ai only powers 9 orbs so I just make 9 of the best command ships and some tt. I practised in a small map with rom and was able to conquer card by turn 50. In vanilla you can usually conquer a major by turn 30.

I didn't bother making fast attack to use as flak as you would in vanilla with rom.

There's really no secret to making a big fleet fast. Put ships in the queue, power all your industry and keep moral high.

[count23]

do most players start at tech 1 or do they start at higher techs? I usually start at 1, it takes about 100 turns before i can spit out any cruisers, unless i really ramp up the research and sacrifice intel...

[mickar]

I guess it depends on the player and what mod. If I'm playing UDM, I also usually start at t1. Most of those games last well over 200 turns.

[KrazeeXXL]

They key of a successful mp game is the shipbuilding.

But it takes improvisation and creativity.

most mp games are played on small/med size maps so confrontations between major powers happen very early. Had much games were I found another major in turn 2... (t3 games afair)

The faster you are in shipbuilding the higher the chance of a win. So in a t3 game on a small map it is nothing about colonization or big tech-research.
Sure you might use these options but most only if you found a system with dilithium or in a game which will last longer. then you could might need some tech to get some advantages.

that is almost the standard of small/med size games. Bigger ones have another character. So everything will last longer. Especially when you play at t1.

200 turns sounds good for me in normal large maps. Depends on the map and the circumstances and if you play with random events=on.

Most games I seen work this way: you and your opponent build/buy a big fleet as fast as possible. Then a major battle will be fought.
The side who lost then surrenderd most of the time.

Expect very short games and destructive behaviour. Don't expect that someone will use diplomatics. :/ If someone found you then you become target #1. AI is only a dummy to reach your goals. But you have to benefit from it and its huge ammounts of credits to win a game.

How?

again with:
ships, ships, chips

[count23]

so it's really a matter of cheap tricks to get ahead and exploiting a badly coded AI to do so? That's kinda disappointing and seems to take the fun out of it.

The most fun BOTF games i've ever played on lans and the like have been where you dont steamroll in the first few turns, but turn it into a game of chess instead.

[KrazeeXXL]

so it's really a matter of cheap tricks to get ahead and exploiting a badly coded AI to do so? That's kinda disappointing and seems to take the fun out of it.

my opinion...excactly

The most fun BOTF games i've ever played on lans and the like have been where you dont steamroll in the first few turns, but turn it into a game of chess instead.

have the same experiences. but top players are top players because of the possibilities. If it is possible to beat a player in 30 turns then you do it inevitable.

It's about to win. Most players just have a short ammount of time and are therefore playing small/med maps. so this short games where you utilize every quantum prevailed for most ppl at the end.

I don't count myself to them. I can play their way, but I don't like it. Like the chess variant, too. But its hard to find someone who likes to play this way and even has the time to play, too.

[mickar]

Personally, I love to use the 'hidden treasures' in botf to crush my opponent like a bug.

Some ppl have the skill necessary to micro-manage all the hidden treasures while others do not.

Some complain about the hidden treasures while others do not.

Anyone can just 'press turn' but it takes a certain amount of skill between pressing turn to win.

Just my opinion on the matter.

EDIT: But botf has always been about ships. There is always a final battle and the person with the most and/or the best ships wins. That IS botf. Think about it for a moment. What does the ai do? It sends its ships to destroy you. Does the ai sit back so he can 'enjoy' the botf experience? No. It sends its' ships to kill you. Should we complain about it or should we also make a fleet?

It's been said that the best defense is a good offense. For me, it's much more exciting and fun to make a fleet and conquer whoever is nearest me. There are times where I do enjoy the sit back and do nothing games but generally I find those boring.

[KrazeeXXL]

what do you think we're doing during our "think time"? looking at the columns and the planet animations?

its a difference between hit and run and well thought plans you need 50 turns to achieve. For me it is fun to play BotF this way. and yea I even build ships to win...

but its also the game against the opponent which has an appeal for me. Forseeing his/her strategies, making plans which always can fail. Nothing a 30 turn game is about.

It is always about a sustainable game. Who is simply better in micromanagement + diplomacy and all the things the game is about.

[mickar]

No disrespect to you or the way you play, Krazee, but I'm usually able to execute my carefully laid plans in 30 turns on a med map, quicker on small maps.

Our goal is the same, destroy your opponent. My view is why wait for your opponent to build up and have the ability to destroy me. No, I want to kill him fast before he gets this ability.

If I wait, he might upgrade his ships and kill me. Would that be good strategy?

Not all my games are quick. It depends on placement. Sometimes my opponent is far so I need to change strategy. Maybe I'll conquer a major or two before I go after my opponent or maybe I'll sit and research.

But if I have range to my opponent and I choose to ignore him, what does that say about my strategic abilities? If the opportunity is there to kill him, I take it. I don't see anything wrong with that.

EDIT: I also think you misunderstand how I play. I utilize ALL aspects of botf which includes shipbuilding, research, diplomacy and intel. Ask any of my opponents and they will tell you how I intel them or member minors or sign treaties with majors or colonize when necessary and how I upgrade my ships. We should play and maybe then you'll appreciate my botf playing abilities.

EDIT 2: If fact, I consider myself one of the best at membering minor. Some players will ask me how I member so quickly and I'm happy to share how. I usually play as Fed in vanilla and that is what fed does, he members minor. I learned how and I learned how to do it fast.

I guess what I'm saying is this: Should I be criticized because I can do things fast in botf? Faster than most ppl?

[KrazeeXXL]

If I haven't met my enemy as yet doesn't mean that I'm ignoring him/her.

Mickar we both are talking about different things again. You about small/med size maps and I was talking 'bout big ones.

In small maps it is indeed the goal to overwhelm your enemy afap. What I want to say is that this big map mp games aren't of lesser quality then the games you're playing. On the contrary!

We're all playing this game for 10 years now and I have to say that I'm a bit tired to discuss about things everyone already knows.

count23, if you want a game against an opponent who plays this game almost the same way under the same aspects as you do... pm me

edit: appreciate your botf-playing aspects?
man,
We're playing for different reasons. You to crush your enemy and to tell everyone who don't want to know it that you're the king of the world. And I play this game for fun. I don't care of a win or a loss. Ok if I play against JBL its about to win but that's a another story

so you could sign up for tourney and with a bit luck we'll play each others mickar...

[mickar]

So you dont care if you win or lose? Please....

Everyone cares if they win or lose.

I'm in warzone now. Don't need luck to play me, Krazee.

[KrazeeXXL]

a good Borg Drone knows when to regenerate

[Oskatat]

if i go down with a good fight, i dont mind to lose. If i go down to superior tactics, i dont mind. If you show up at my doorstep at t30 with a big fleet, i'm in between wanting to hit your face and asking on my knees for a guide on how you did that

[Gertjan]

Interesting discussion here. I also like to prefer the slow way of playing, while of course wanting to win, but not only through conquest. I dont like to use exploits etc.