so.... strike cruisers

[count23]

What's the point in using them in planetary assaults? They always die when a planet's orbs are on, especially compared to cruisers or battleships, so what is their advantage? More damage inflicted on a planet's surface or what?

[KrazeeXXL]

I guess this is the answer to your question

More damage inflicted on a planet's surface or what?

but better invest into bs in this case. strike cruisers are a nice option/addition in tactical combats. but nothing more for me.

[Martok]

It's unfortunately true that strike cruisers are of limited utility in vanilla BOTF. Between their short range, slow speed, and their being weaker against OB's than battleships, there's little reason to build them.

Most mods fix SC's so that they're actually worth building. In the vanilla version of the game, however, they're not very useful.

[count23]

Well. Strike cruisers usually help in battle, set them to assault and their torpedoe waves generally wipe out most fast attacks in the first turn or so. I've used them to great result in some larger battles, but they've always been useless in their primary role as planetary assault.

What about UDM 3 and BOP? Are strike cruisers actually good or still useless?

[thunderchero]

In UDM think of them as your second best ship at most times. small gap tech 6-8 heavy cruiser has better stats until assault is upgraded to type II.

But I like it gives a third group for battle commands "fast attack" "strike" and "command".

thunderchero

[ruthlessferengi]

strike cruiser in BOP? ah.... you could sing a song about Ferengi Strike Cruiser in BOP.... better yet - a hymn... an Ode to Conquest. A total beast, could pretty much torpedo or RAM anything out of the sky... (until there was a circumcision = and Gowron make them die on RAM)... in bop striker cruiser is a major ASSet, as in ass kicking buddy... ah...

planetary take over? well, sure, but tactical advantage - given the right range and speed - a definitive peace keeper, or breaker, or whatever you want - it has so much ridiculous power, you pretty much write your own ticket.. but i digress...

[Martok]

Well. Strike cruisers usually help in battle, set them to assault and their torpedoe waves generally wipe out most fast attacks in the first turn or so. I've used them to great result in some larger battles, but they've always been useless in their primary role as planetary assault.

I agree that strike cruisers can be an asset in vanilla BOTF battles -- IF you can them to the battles in the first place. Again, however, their slow speed and short range are major liabilities in this regard.

What about UDM 3 and BOP? Are strike cruisers actually good or still useless?

Strike cruisers in BOP are definitely worth building, but their abilities vary because every empire's "strike cruiser" doesn't conform to the same standard.

Cardassians & Romulans: The Neterok- and R'Derex- classes are true strike cruisers; they're heavy on the torpedoes but possess only very limited beam weapons (and are thus vulnerable in a short-range dogfight). They're not the greatest at planetary assault, with the exception of their most advanced versions (Mark IV), which are tougher and therefore have better odds when engaging orbital batteries.

Federation & Klingons: The Nebula- and Vor'cha- classes aren't really strike cruisers, as they have a balanced weapons complement. What they do have, however, is excellent shielding & armor; as such, they're quite effective in planetary assaults. In addition, the Nebula-class boasts superior sensors, and is thus an invaluable tool serving in both large fleets and on small border patrols. In contrast, the Vor'cha owns an impressive weapons suite, and essentially fulfills the role of a heavy cruiser (which is as described on the Klingons' shiplist).

Ferengi: As their chief advocate ruthlessferengi implied ( ), the Gaila-class "strategic cruiser" is probably the best strike cruiser in the BOP mod. It wields not only a large complement of torpedo launchers, but a fairly decent array of beam weapons as well -- not as much as a regular ship-of-the-line, of course, but it's less vulnerable in short-range battles than the Cards' or Roms' strike cruiser(s). The Gaila- also boasts excellent shields and respectable armor, and is therefore quite handy to have around when assaulting planetary systems.


With all five empires, strike cruisers in BOP have been fixed so that they're no longer hindered by the same deficiencies that afflict those in the vanilla game: They're generally faster (especially later on as they get upgraded) and enjoy MUCH better range -- all SC's are at least medium range, and a few of them even go out to long range. Again, as rf said, strike cruisers in BOP are definitely an asset now.

[Mentat]

As for Strike cruisers in UDM I might add a line or two:

As Thunder already mentioned, they come up to be the second or third best ship in your compliment at times(depending on actual techlevel). Their immense advantage thought lies not only in superior planetary strike abilities, but even more in their hugely increased Torpedoe range. So if you want to take on a full fledged Starbase with ships that guard it, you really wouldn't want to go without strike cruisers. And in any space battle, especially the advanced strike cruisers are a menace for your opponent, and he better deal with them quickly or suffer immense losses. In this respect, the Romulan T'Hawril advanced strike cruiser is the most deadly torpedoe ship in UDM but also the most fragile. Overall, keeping the construction time in mind, you get a ship with nearly the firepower of your battleships of the line, but much faster to produce and with a critical advantage in range. Just don't let your enemy come to close to those strike cruisers.

[ruthlessferengi]

very insightful, Mentat... anybody cares to publish an expose on UDM ships? would be nice...

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

What's the point in using them in planetary assaults? They always die when a planet's orbs are on, especially compared to cruisers or battleships, so what is their advantage? More damage inflicted on a planet's surface or what?

For planetary assault counts torpedo damage only. So in theory they should work well... but unfortunately about 1/3 of BotF's code is unfinished or not working correcty. This also includes the intended first strike advantage of strike cruisers against OBs... therefore they always die...

[count23]

spock: that explains a lot really... is there any chance you'll ever figure out how to fix it or enable it or is this little issue more of a "lack of code" then a "hex values incorrectly set"?

[Mentat]

very insightful, Mentat... anybody cares to publish an expose on UDM ships? would be nice...

Naturally I could do that RF, but I'd rather leave that to one of the players. The point is that I lack recent UDM game experience, since I am too occupied with RL and the scenario-map, that while I clearly know all the details about the UDM ships and could post an in detail Excelsheet in this matter, those numbers alone wouldn't really explain the ingame behavior.

One thing though that I kept well in mind were a series of Testbattles that I did with Thunder, where we let compareable sizes of fleets from the leash to test how the five races and some minor ships behave. My conclusio from those tests is that e.g.: klingon vs dominion are very tough encounters, where the klingon player has to use all his skill to win the day. And I deem the romulans would even have a harder time on the dominion ships. Cardassian vessels possess real superior hulls, and like in vanilla have to be used accordingly to secure victory. Another point are Minor ships, those are really worth building, especially in the early stages of a game. Some though will be an asset to the very end of a session.

Well mabye after all I shall enter my observations, ermm settings:
Cardassians: Superior hull, good defenses, mediocre shields and weapons. The least agile ships.
Federation: Jack of all trades, best shields, very good defenses, strong hull and weapons, the most agile ships. Ahead in warpspeedand and best targeting systems.
Dominion: Strong on all fronts, best weapons, very agile ships. On par with Feds regarding warpspeed.
Klingon: Mediocre shields and hull, good defenses, nearly on par with Dominion in weaponry(Klingons have generally more beam weapons). Mediocre agility.
Romulans: Good shields, weakest hull, mediocre weapons, mediocre agility and second best targeting systems.

Edit: Mind that this is an overall rating, every race has its "special"-shiptypes where it excels.

Edit2: Decided to post some more secrets.
Ad Weapons: I will choose Klingons and Romulans to make a short intro of how weapontypes are used in the mod.

Klingons and Romulans use both Disruptors as Beam weapons (and so do some Minors btw.) While both have the same base damage which gets a racial and techlevel bonus, the Romulans are limited to Pulse Disruptors (former Disrupters mark III) while the Klingons make use of mighty Heavy Disruptor Cannons(former mark IV). This nad the fact of more beamweapons per shipclass leaves the Klingons to be the race with the most damageoutput in beamweapons(medium-close range) up to +70% more beamdamageoutput compared to Cardassians or Romulans for example. The Romulans on the other hand have the most devastating Plasma III-Torpedoes, which have even more base damage then Quantum torpedoes. This alone leaves the Romulans as Number1 race in Torpedoe damageoutput, but closely followed by high tech polaron torpedoes and quantum torpedoes, which depending on the race, have better accuracy and range, then the Romulan torpedoes.

So for those of you that love to crunch numbers:
Weapondamageoutput = Basedamage of the Weapontype + Racial Bonus + Techbonus

And while a Battleship might have a lot more beams and torpedoes then a scoutship, the damage of one single torpedoe or beam hitting your target will be the same, given the weapontechlevel-requirement for th ship is also the same.

[ruthlessferengi]

nice... keep it coming:) for cardies, however, if ram=death change is done, no hull advantage there, really

[Mentat]

Agreed RF; thats something we haven't yet been thinking about. In this case I agree with you. We will have to discuss this.

[thunderchero]

For planetary assault counts torpedo damage only. So in theory they should work well... but unfortunately about 1/3 of BotF's code is unfinished or not working correcty. This also includes the intended first strike advantage of strike cruisers against OBs... therefore they always die...

Do we know subroutine/location for "first strike advantage of strike cruisers against OBs" that was not finished or not working correctly?

thunderchero