Random questions from a (relative) newbie

[Peter1981]

I've been meaning to post that sort of post for a little while and your question spurred me to action so yes I did write it out and I did it just for you but I hope other will read it and benefit from it. When I started modding BotF myself I new nothing about hexadecimal or assembly or machine code but going through the process ment that last year tethys and myself (with a lot of help from SCT) cracked the extra technologies and I personally was able to crack the adding of building. I just wanted to put a simple step by step guide to the tool box.

[Spychotic]

Well, I've made the code changes, and the effect was immediate. Both the Cardies and the Romulans expanded, each to a planet a fair way away from their clusters. However, they only took one, and don't seem to be making any attempt to take any more, so it could be coincidence.

I also managed to fix another bug, so thanks for the info Peter!

Spike

[RSE_Dissy]

One other MASSIVELY IMPORTANT tip for feds..

If you see a subjucated minor..anywhere... Try to liberate them, Feds get insane morale boosts from freeing a conquered race.

Sometimes 1 liberation will bring morale back up after 5 invasions of your own - also the liberation brings the morale of conquered systems up to content or above.

I havn't read all the topic due to coding and stuff i ignore hehe , but another i'd just like to point out winning battles is morale plus for feds, try and hail smaller task forces and fight them again and again, this will raise your morale by a little each turn cummulative effect over 15 turns of small battles won is a noticable empire wide morale increase..

In terms of first 50 turns of t1 large game. My tactic would be to first build 5 scouts.. scout everything. Organise research to prioritise key structures needed and ship upgrades... After built scouts I'd continue building colony ships constantly and plonking them everywhere (IF NO minor races.. if minor races maybe I'd slow down on colonies if they are near and try bribe them while terraforming their systems)... Get lots of colonies asap, terra 1 planet per system and sprawl, then follow up and terra rest of systems when your ready/system is ready to jump... I'd get trade centres as primary no.1 building on all systems, then just focus on food/industry... get enuff food buildings for whole pop, and leave enuff population in to feed whole system!(yes whole system even if pop is 40) this will increase population growth and system fill quicker.. all the while building food/industry on all new colonies.. by turn 50 and beyond hope is you have tons of colonies with pop growing and building class 1 structs and upgrading by themselves..whilst pouring money to minors and waiting for them to reach max pop before conquering(EDIT: or membering.)

If you meet major race early, build some Cruisers, fly them to their border and threaten them into giving money/giving peace treaties...

I always play on Impossible, and if you like minor races perhaps you should too, they have better structures and are more advanced when you member them... on Imposs AI is tough sometimes if you meet early but if you have 100 turns to mobilize before meeting them Imposs is not particulary hard (just be sure to have x2 the ground combat of systems when invading in terms of TTs ground combat value.. and then 2 extra TTs for good luck to make sure you don't get repelled from an invasion)...

[Spychotic]

Thanks to everyone who's helped me with various bugfixes and how to use the Hex Editor. A very useful tool indeed that has significantly improved my enjoyment of the game!

I have a new round of questions;

When one conquers a high-technology planet which already has level 9 upgrades, it is possible to end up with foreign technology and no way to upgrade it back to your own. My question; I've noticed that in such cases, the alien technologies produce less output than native ones. I can think of a number of reasons why this might be;
- There is a penalty for operating non-native technologies (such as Fabricators and Gravitic Turbines when playing as the Federation), or equivalently perhaps a bonus for operating native ones.
- Subjugated planets tend to have a lower morale and the output of structures is morale-dependent
- There are basic differences between the effectiveness of different technologies, whoever operates them.

Which (if any) are true?

Next question; Is there any way to have all 30 minor races in a game? Even setting the UE to allow 30, it only allows 29.

Third question; When you bribe a minor race away from another power, any ships that the minor had will remain with their previous owners. Is there any way to recode the game to make these switch too?

Thanks and regards,

Spike

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

1.) Factories & science are strongly affected by morale and also the base output for different races structures is not the same (see modding index -> general game mechanics).

2.) Getting 30 minors could be a bit tricky (map & starting settings -> minor race frequency)

3.) Such a minor-ships modification would be way too much work.

[Spychotic]

Thanks SCT.

I've been through the Modding Index and can't find the info on base values for different structure types. Perhaps I'm being blind, but more to the point; I think it'd be neat if one could upgrade structures to the same level of native structure at the max-out point (e.g. a Federation player upgrading type 9 Fabricators to type 9 Mass Replicators) so that we're not stuck with non0native structures that cannot be upgraded. Does anyone have any resources that could help me figure out how to code this please? I've previously found (but lost again for the moment) a topic regarding adding in structures at higher tech levels (e.g. type 10-11-12 Mass Replicators etc.) which might help.

Also, going through the Minor Race issue, I've found this topic regarding changing the number of minors directly, but it appears that the table is wrong;

The connection with the settings can be found in subroutine 4B22A0, and the following numbers are used:

Code: Select all

address   size   minors  default
------
4B22BD   small     none        0
4B22DE              few        3
4B22E5             some        5
4B22EC             many        8
------           
4B22BD  medium     none        0
4B22EC              few        8
4B22F3             some       15
4B22FA             many       21
------
4B22BD   large     none        0
4B2301              few       12
4B2308             some       24
4B230F             many       30

Note that two values (8 and 0) are shared.

As far as I can tell, only the zero values are shared, and the table should read like this;

Code: Select all

address   size   minors  default
------
4B22BD   small     none        0
4B22DE              few        
4B22E5             some        
4B22EC             many        
------           
4B22BD  medium     none        0
4B22F3              few        
4B22FA             some       
4B2301             many       
------
4B22BD   large     none        0
4B2308              few       
4B230F             some       
4B2316             many       

I've skipped the values because they're probably edited away from vanilla in my game (they don't all match up). However, looking up the same values listed in UE 0.7.1a, each value listed is 1 less in the UE window than in the hex code in trek.exe. So by setting the value to 30 in UE, we set it to 31 in hex (1F) yet I'm still only getting 29 minors... I'd like to reliably get 30. There's some argument as to whether the second iteration of the table will allow setting minimums (in which case, I suspect that I'd have to set the corresponding value (sod the address; it's at 0xb17c6 in trek.exe) to 1F; but all the values there are 0 already. It might be that I'm already modified, but on the other hand, it might be that there is something elese somewhere else that forbids more than 29 minors irrespective of the max and min values set). Anyone have any ideas on this?

And if letting minor race ships change sides is a pain; then I'll forget about it. Thanks for the answer!

And thanks for any more incoming answers too!

Regards,

Spike

[Peter1981]

I've been through the Modding Index and can't find the info on base values for different structure types. Perhaps I'm being blind, but more to the point; I think it'd be neat if one could upgrade structures to the same level of native structure at the max-out point (e.g. a Federation player upgrading type 9 Fabricators to type 9 Mass Replicators) so that we're not stuck with non0native structures that cannot be upgraded. Does anyone have any resources that could help me figure out how to code this please? I've previously found (but lost again for the moment) a topic regarding adding in structures at higher tech levels (e.g. type 10-11-12 Mass Replicators etc.) which might help.

have your read the edifice.bst topic? and the adding buildings topic? if not these both should give you the answer you looking for. IMHO I don't think it is possible however, you could disable the AI from building level 9 buildings so you can always upgrade them when you reach the required tech; or you could give each building the relevant races values for each race:

e.g. Type 1 Assembly yard (index: 88)
bonus type: 13: Industry
Cardassians: 11 -> 11 (no change)
Federation: 11 -> 10 (fed type 1 mass replicator value)
Ferengi: 11 -> 8 (ferengi value)
Klingon: 11 -> 12 (klingon value)
Romulan: 11 -> 9 (Romulan value)
Neutral: 11 -> 11 (keep)

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

I've been through the Modding Index and can't find the info on base values for different structure types.

You can see the base output ingame via e.g. the tech object screen for each building of your empire. Just compare them starting games for 5 majors.

I think it'd be neat if one could upgrade structures to the same level of native structure at the max-out point.

I'm not quite an expert when it comes to building upgrades but AFAIK this is unrealistic (yet).

going through the Minor Race issue, I've found this topic regarding changing the number of minors directly, but it appears that the table is wrong;

No I don't think so. Also you might read the topic a bit more attentive. It explains the UE +1 setting - and also have a look at the other factors i.e. the links listed by Gowron (e.g. the minor density).

[DCER]

going through the Minor Race issue, I've found this topic regarding changing the number of minors directly, but it appears that the table is wrong;

If you edited the values using UE the locations might change a bit as UE does some minor code modifications to do away with values being shared.

[Spychotic]

That explains why my table is different then. Thanks DCER!

[dune165]

Greetings everybody..!!

Am also a (relative) newbie, and am afraid I will also stay a newbie till the end of my life due to the following problem:

from the very moment I encounter say the Cardassian, "they" seem to be continuosly raiding, stealing my credits, destroying facilities and ships, the hemorragy continues until the income cannot resupply the losses, and my ending to a poor house is just a question of 35, 40 turns. Have NEVER managed to play more than 80/90 turns.
Of course I keep my internal security management to 100% and keep looking where the hell these Cardassians are, that keep so diabolically destroying my game. All clocked? no sign whatsoever......

Would anyone know how to defend yourself from this continuous plundering?

Many thanks, and I wish you all a lot of fun with this great game.

dune

[thunderchero]

hi dune165,

here is a couple way to combat heavy intel races.

1. use intel back so they have to put some on internal security to.
2. not only do you have to keep internal security high 95% but you have to assign people to your structures and build more when needed.

thunderchero

[dune165]

Many thanks thunderchero, yes, I have 1.0.2 dowloaded and installed. Will indeed pay more attention to intell structures and mannings.

Will let the board know when and if I manage to reach the 200th turn without having lost the game..!!

[Flocke]

welcome dune165, with answering on thundercheros signature, you seem to be new to forums, too

Well, being new to BotF it's no shame to loose against the cardassian intelligence.
I guess you started at a low technology level and developed slow, and didn't expand much.
Tell us more on your game settings.

Once you have enough systems it really doesn't matter much if they blow up a few structures here and there.
And with more experience you outmatch AI anyway.

While it's hardly possible to completely prevent the cardassians from sabotaging you, you can reduce it's amount and effect.
Here are some tips:
1. conquer the cardassians and you're fine ok, well, go on with next one
2. don't meet the cardassian as the first race, they always search for a victim, which also brings us to the next
3. try to help them finding a victim but don't make them hate you. hard task but once they're at war with another race but you, you're fine (therefore eventually also get at war temporarily)
3b. if you manage to make them liking you, pay if they ask for money and you have it, one or two turns later you can ask it back (at least if you're not too weak)
4. don't trust the cardassians, when you make peace. they take it as an invitation to spionage and sabotage you. only if you manage to get allied or affiliated they stop
5. have a powerful fleet and good infrastructure. while they shouldn't fear you too much, they also shouldn't get the impression you're weak cause else you'll soon become their victim
6. assign more people to intel before ai begins to intel you, this builds up some defense, but against the cardassians that doesn't hold for long
7. build more colonies with cheap buildings and cheap ships, it doesn't cost much if one them blows up
8. assign 95% research to one category and 1% each to the rest, this lowers chance for a high research loss
9. play your race like it's meant to be

intel back in my experience doesn't work so good, you should only use it when ai already hates you anyway, else they might soon increase their attacks and you're their long time victim
it makes much more sense in multiplayer though

in summary, just get more experience to build up quicker.
AI actually is easy to beat, in all modes, but the fun learning to play BotF is the best of it, so better don't read too much on the tricks here on afc

p.s. quite a mixed topic here

[xDx]

Hi dune165,

The AI may seem tough at first but that is really just because of the cheats that are given to them on higher difficulty levels. Once you figure out the process the AI takes to play the game they become very predictable and beating the AI becomes easy. Two things to remember when you play against only the AI: man your intel structures before ever meeting them so you create an internal security buffer against early intel attacks AND build your fleet as quickly as you can. The stronger you seem to the AI the more they will hesitate to attack you. Making new colonies are important especially in epic games but basically terraform one planet, colonize it, build a shipyard for range, and fill the build queue with your basic structures (food, industry, intel, energy, research in that order IMO). Then forget about the colony and let it grow and make money for you on its own. Use your starting systems to make ships so you don't appear weak and helpless to the AI. If you do meet them early and you notice them moving troop transports close to you to build an outpost they are trying to get range to attack your systems so destroy the TT as quickly as you can. Also if it seems like your meeting the AI too early you could always download the error correction mod (plays like 1.0.2 except with many bug fixes) and play on a larger map to give you time to grow and build ships. I hope this info helps you a little bit and good luck against the AI

Edit: I typed this as Flocke responded as well ( everyone seems to type faster than me ). Flocke's advise is very good and basically the way most of us on here learned as well. Anyways, best of luck to you