Developing Colonies

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Badbru
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Developing Colonies

Post by Badbru » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:46 am

So, you've found that perfect system for ship building; Dialithium, 500+ pop, planets that give energy bonus, planets that give food bonus, maybe a gas giant too depending on the mod, what do you do?
Colonise on the one habitable planet then follow up with one? or more? colony ships later?

Terraform the whole lot first?

First build an outpost/starbase on it?

Lets say your well develpoed tech wise say 8's and 9's...
When developing it do you build 50 lvl 1 structures and then upgrade?

Upgrade to current tech whatever the colony ship gave you?

or get it to self sustaining and then just check on it's progress every 5 or so turns?

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Oskatat
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Post by Oskatat » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:46 pm

who cares about dilithium on it. dilithium on a 85 pop planet is as useful as any other

dont know why you mention the gas giant? any mod that makes them useful? mention it please

and I'd use pretty much the same tactics as for any colony, let it build by itself

A fully developped colony is worth more than any colony. even if its 500 pop. can you imagine the costs for upgrading? It will take ages before this colony, on itself or even with continuous financial help, would be of any use

i'd terrafor it a bit, then send a new colony ship there to finish it, depending if there were more colony targets that way, or if someone else had chance at colonizing

thats just my first opinion, more maybe later

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Post by Peter1981 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:34 pm

to be honest i've been doing a lot of thinking about colony size while working on the TOS Mod Oskatat and I think i'm agreeing with you when I say, huge colony systems with population maxs >500 take so long to setup and upgrade that they don't every do anything useful except support the starfleet. Having said that tiny colonies are easily completed but must be planed ans specialised to optimise their small populations.

Regarding Gas Giants IIRC the Galaxys Mod by Tethys has at least one building that requires a gas giant in system to build.

W.r.t. long builds it is my hope that the build queue can one day be modded to use all production and put 'wasted' production into the next build queue item.

For example sol is producing 2500 production units per turn and has in its build queue a bunker network; oberth, and starfleet academy

on turn processing the the system uses 300 pu's to produce the bunker network, 720 pu's (and 1 dilithium) to build the oberth and the remaining 1420 pu's go into producing starefleet academy which requires 5000 pu's so will be finished on the turn after next.

this would make a lot more sence to me.

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Badbru
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Post by Badbru » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:07 am

This topic was spawned by me playing alot of UDM3 lately. In one particular game (medium map/large maps version) I had found atleast two systems that almost fit all those criteria. In one I built 10 construction yards and pretty much let them upgrade themselves until lvl 4 or perhaps 5. By this stage I was closing on lvl9 construction tech. When I reached lvl 9 construction I spent the next 5 or 6 turns rush buying the upgade to lvl 9 then set it to build 40 more lvl 9 construction buildings. Let me tell you, this seemed to take forever, or cost a fortune. Each level 9 yard was many thousands of credits, or 8 to 10 or so of build time. Times that by 40 and ohhhh.

In the other system I built 50 lvl 1 constuction yards. Took me 47 turns because I started with 3.
It felt like, note "felt like" I have not done the math, that it was cheaper and easier and more usefull to do it this way. 50 yards get expensive to upgrade beyond lvl 5 or 6 but in those few turns wherein I needed to save for the upgrade I could build a few ships here. I never bothered building ships at the first system when I had 10 lvl 9 yards. System one was only useful when it was finally finnished.

Basically my question was had anyone actually done the math on this? Is it cheaper to buy 50 (or 47) lvl 1 structures and then upgrade them 8 times to lvl 9's. Or, is it cheaper to upgrade 10 structures to lvl 9 and then buy 40 more lvl 9 structures.

My feeling is the first method is better.

As to the gas giants, they are required for ship training buildings in one of the mods, most likely Galaxys mod but I'm uncertain.

As to the dilithium, you're right, it matters not where it is but I just prefer to build ships where the dilithium is if its a feasible ship building system.

And, I thought people might have idiosincracies about how they develop systems and want to talk about it. But with over 130 views before the topic got your two posts I guess I was wrong.

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Post by Martok » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:20 pm

Actually, Badbru, I develop my colonies similar to how you do it: I first build a bunch of Level 1 structures, and then upgrade. That's nearly always been the easiest & best way in my experience.
"Evil is easy, and has infinite forms." -- Pascal

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Post by Badbru » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:19 am

Yes, on further thought the wasted population, not in built structures, is afterall wasted population.

My feeling with that system I built ten lvl 9 structures in was that lvl 9 structures have the highest output so why not get the highest output first as they will progressive build the other 40 structures faster and faster the more of them get built. Alas it was all just too slow and too expensive.

When it was finally finnished that system was awesome. It produced my most expensive ships in 2 or 3 turns. However as a fraction of my actually fleet, ships from that system represented only a very small amount, far less than the other system.

So in terms of strategy guide I feel it's definatly better to fill a system up first with whatever tech you have and then pay the cost to upgrade them later.

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Re: Developing Colonies

Post by Paranoia » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:22 am

I start out with having my starting colony(ies) set up for Industry. I then terraform and colonize the surrounding systems and set them up for Intel and Research. I prefer to build 40ish structures and then upgrade them.

After this I go looking for minor races. I get the to Cordial and then Affiliate. After setting up trade routes they soon start to worship me. I terraform their remaining planets and wait for them to get tp 75% max population before I offer membership. This ensure that they have a decent Industry level saving me time and money.

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Re: Developing Colonies

Post by RSE_Dissy » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:42 pm

colonies are vastly important in large map and low tech games...



...in Ultimate Dominion Mod 3 epic sized maps, I make sure i'm up to 20 systems by turn 40, then by turn 160-200. You will see most of my fresh new colonies will have something similar to this:

full food probably level 3
29 industry probably level 3-5
7 power probably level 3-5
EITHER
12 Intel Level 5 or 12 Res Lab Level 5
Trade centre
Di refinery
Shipyard
Research multiplier
Intel muliplier
scanner

and with extra colonies made since turn 40 that will equate to about 30 systems, all on between 300-800 industry level... useless???? I think not... 800 industry is plenty, can upgrade quickly, build ships at a reasonable pace

The key is getting the colony to max population asap.. First build enough food structures so when they are powered all potential people in colony can be fed, this will make it grow quickest. I spam colony ships and drop them on any M class planets I see and then have a support-force of colony ships follow up and fully terraform the system.. !

Then I build 15 Industry, 5 Energy and either 8 Intel or 8 Research buildings.
I que these and leave the colony growing and building, depending on size of colony it should finish this que around turn 70 (total ISH here).. at that point I'll buy the key structures needed (shipyard, intel etc), then I leave it upgrading industry until level 3, then do the intel and food n stuff (if its necessary), and generally only check them when I notice they are on trade routes in Summary view...I throw in another 10 industry and more intel/research/energy buildings as and when needed... usually after a Industry upgrade I'll build 5 more Industry and que the next upgrade ....if I see enough power for a fancy new Daystrom facility I havn't bought yet I'll take the time out to buy it, then send the system into upgrades again. The way forward is definately staggered upgrades synchronised across multiple colonies, having them develop at a similar pace allows for easier management. This staggered upgrade technique, from my experience, is much more natural and efficient than simply filling with level 1 and upgrading, think about it, you have 40 level 1 industry outputting what... 200 industry? and every turn they are building either an Intel or research lab at what 40 industry? naaa you want to stagger it so when you are building a intel structure the industry output of your system is not far far above the industry value of the building you are building.

If all goes well , and your playing a multiplayer game, come turn 150-200 when you've met your enemy and are gearing up to fight you can produce heavy ships on your minor races and homeworlds while building support ships and fast attack on your colonies built by YOU!!

Colonies are pretty useless in early t5 games (other than for their research/intel multiplier/and credits from population)... however in a large map t5 game that lasts longer than 150 turns, the player who made 5 or 6 colonies and managed them well will have a much better base to build up from, with the ability to produce smaller ships on many systems the potential for fleet production escalates...for this reason if I make colonies I never ignore them, and make sure that if I do need them in 100 turns they are ready for me .... when you are making a colony your not making it for now, your making it for in 100 turns when you need money and that colony has 400 pop and an extra trade route you'll be thankful you made it !

Hope all this helps :)
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borgpow
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Re: Developing Colonies

Post by borgpow » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:04 pm

um... i think its easier i have a mod i edited so colonys start with one building of each because if u upgade 1 type 1 to the highest level u can then build more of each because its cheaper faster because each upgrade costs moe and more per building of that type and idk if anyone noticed but when u build a building or an upgrade the turn its ceated isnt accounted for until the turn after unless u buy it early thats y the ai buys it wit one turn left

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Knight
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Re: Developing Colonies

Post by Knight » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:12 pm

Well, i don't run any mods, but in the Vanilla game (i think thats what you guys call it :) ) i usually do the follow for new colonies:

- Terraform enough for around 100 population and then coloinze
- Send a new colony ship in to do the rest, usually with a troop transport for an outpost (defence)
- I'd start off by building x4 industry yards and x2 food production buildings
- Once they're built, i'd upgrade them to level 2
- I'd then move on to create more food and industry depending on the systems needs
- Once its got over 10 populated industry and is growing at a decent rate, i'd move onto power, intel and research buildings
- Once the basics are done, i'll construct the speical buidlings i.e. OWP's

Thats usually how i do it... :lol:

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