what ship models would you like to see created?

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JeanLucPicard1
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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by JeanLucPicard1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:12 pm

Zambie Zan released a K'Tinga pack for Bridge Commander a few years ago. It's one of my favorite ship packs. It included the IKC Amar from TMP and Kronos I from ST:VI. Both of them were very authentic and highly detailed.

Couldn't we get one of them converted over to BOTF like some of the newer models used in UDM III?

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by anjel » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:21 am

JeanLucPicard1 wrote:Zambie Zan released a K'Tinga pack for Bridge Commander a few years ago. It's one of my favorite ship packs. It included the IKC Amar from TMP and Kronos I from ST:VI. Both of them were very authentic and highly detailed.

Couldn't we get one of them converted over to BOTF like some of the newer models used in UDM III?
well, first of all, we should have zambie permission, then we have to find a way to make a proper conversion from BC to BOTF. As far as i know, no one have ever tryied to make this kind of conversion, don´t know what kind of files BC manage. Are there any images from zambie pack to look at ???
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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by JeanLucPicard1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:41 pm

Yep, I have a link to the pack right here. http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/fi ... Pack;40411

There's plenty of pics which include all the variants in the pack including a very nice close up of the Kronos I.

I think BC uses nif files for the models. I'm also sure ZZ wouldn't have a problem giving permission to allow use of his ships in BOTF.

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by Tethys » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:21 pm

Indeed those models look good but they might be too good (ie many polys will need editing). It might make more sense to use the D-7 Ktinga available on the site and slightly modify it as close as possible with appropriate texturing. But I'm not a modeler, so idk ;)
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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by JeanLucPicard1 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:07 am

I don't know how many polys it is, but I don't think it's a high poly model. They didn't slow my pc down much. How many polys is standard for BOTF?

Anyway, if anyone has Milkshape they might be able to use the Milkshape Importer/Exporter to export the .nif files to BOTF.

It can be found here. http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/fi ... gins;18852

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by jonesie85two » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:49 pm

Hello all,

i would love to see these ships in botf:-

- Denobulan Medical ship. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... Barzai.jpg.

EDIT: Coridan to mazarite.
- Mazarite Ship. http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/20 ... =655&h=393.

- Krenim Ship (not the temperal ship). http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/tyohships.htm.

- Tellerite Freighter. http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/20 ... enar-4.jpg.

- Orian Interceptor. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... cannon.jpg.

- Kobali Vessel. http://www.ditl.org/gpgm/GKobaliShip2.jpg.

- Malon Ship. http://www.strekschematics.utvinternet. ... /malon.jpg.

- Kazon Dreadnaught. http://www.bwafer.com/starwars/images/K ... Basics.jpg.

- Voth City Ship. .

thank you for you time and patience.
Last edited by jonesie85two on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by anjel » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:05 pm

mmm. they´re all interesting ships. Some are in my list to do.
About the coridan ship, there aren´t anymore pictures ???
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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by jonesie85two » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:35 pm

anjel wrote:mmm. they´re all interesting ships. Some are in my list to do.
About the coridan ship, there aren´t anymore pictures ???
whoops. i knew there was something fishy about the coridan ship. sorry. I meant, Mazarite.

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by Mumby » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:01 am

Surprised nobody mentioned it, but I always thought the Ferengi should have had a shuttlepod as there scout ship.

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by teukros » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:35 pm

Is there a model of the Klingon Academy frigate, the pIH class according to that game? This visually interesting class seems to have been forgotten, it took me a long time to find this image on the web.

Note the weapons rollbar and the lack of visible warp nacelles.

I think this class may have been represented in the first Star Fleet Command game as well.

I have never liked the May'Duj class because of its similarity in appearance to the K'T'Inga class. I would love to experiment with replacing the May'Duj class with the pIH class. It could be to the Empire what the Miranda class is to the Federation! :wink:

EDIT: come to think of it, it would make a lot more sense to replace the B'rel with the pIH (science variant) - and to replace the May'Duj with the B'rel. The science, cargo and war variants of this class are all discussed in this youtube video from 9:23 to 11:58.

If all three models were available, I'd use all three of them. I would definitely replace the Klingon Butterflies with the pIH (cargo / troop transport variant).
Last edited by teukros on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by Peter1981 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:42 am

Yes I'd like to see some of those KA models for the TOS MOD i'm doing 8)

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by anjel » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Peter1981 wrote:Yes I'd like to see some of those KA models for the TOS MOD i'm doing 8)
I knew you would say that, lol

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by geon » Sun May 06, 2012 11:11 pm

Hi Mumby,

I did in fact mention the Ferengi shuttlepod as a scout ship in a previous article way back in 2009

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=777&p=10730&hilit= ... 1da#p10730

Don't know why all the words have gone funny, but here it is again for your viewing pleasure.

(and on the basis of the article, is anyone going to do a Ferengi Probe, Pod and Shuttle??)



Hello again fellow gamers,

This time the Ferengi will be getting the ‘canon’ treatment. So let’s start by looking at how the standard game has portrayed them.

In vanilla ‘Birth of the Federation’, the Ferengi lineup is as follows:

Explorer – Bronta
Light Raider – Ngort
Raider – Tokorn
War Cruiser – Garont
Strike Cruiser – Ooron
Marauder – D’kora
Colony Ship – Tomax
Troop Transport – Glantor

Outpost - Outpost class
Starbase - Starbase class

With the exception of the D’kora class, none of these other ship designs has ever been seen on the small or big screens. In fact most (with the exception of the colony ship and transport) are just variations of the basic D’kora design, with the same general ship form and colour. Ferengi ships in the standard game are also characterized by their generally long ranges, speed and excessive torpedo armament.

Now it must be obvious that this is totally unlike the way the Ferengi have been portrayed on tv. The Ferengi were NEVER a great military power. We have never seen fleets of raiders and war cruisers appearing in defence of the Alliance. There are no clouds of torpedoes spewing forth from Alliance ships to destroy their enemies. The largest ship number seen in any episode is usually one D’kora Marauder. And if all Ferengi ships really did look basically alike, how can one explain Picard’s failure to recognize a D’kora as a Ferengi vessel in TNG ‘The Last Outpost’?? For such a failure, he should just hand over his captaincy to Wesley Crusher and go grow grapes in the family vineyards (sheesh!!!!)

So, with just one canon design to use, it may seem an impossible task to create a canon fleet roster for this race in BOTF. Fortunately, ‘Star Trek The Next Generation’ does show the Ferengi using other vessels, and we can use these to start putting together a trek inspired accurate lineup.

I wholly recommend looking at ‘Ex Astris Scientia’s” Ferengi Ship Classes http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schem ... _ships.htm for a breakdown of these types. We will be using this lineup as a template for our Ferengi Mod navy.

So, let’s get started.

Explorer

The smallest Ferengi vessel we see on the screen is Daimon Bok’s probe from TNG episode “Bloodlines”. We don’t know its exact length, but if appears to be quite a small vessel. Uncomfortable for a human crew, but maybe totally tolerable for the small statured Ferengi. Probes are also mentioned in TNG ‘The Last Outpost’ where they are used to discover the forcefield trapping the Ferengi D’kora. It’s unclear in the episode whether these probes came from the D’kora itself or happened to be in that planetary system at the time.

So the probe can be our explorer class vessel. A small, lightly armed vessel that would be characterized by extended range. The upgrade could be given greater range and a slight increase in armament.

Light Raider

Bernd Schneider in the Ex Astris Scientia’s Ferengi list proposes two shuttle designs for the Ferengi. After looking at his evidence, I totally agree with him, so we can use the smaller shuttle as our light raider type. To differentiate the two shuttles, let’s call this smaller one the Ferengi Pod, and the larger one the Ferengi Shuttle.

Again, as in the probe, the Ferengi Pod would be a long ranged, lightly armed vessel with added manouverabilty to help get it out of tight spots. Like all Ferengi ships, it would have bonuses for raiding planetary systems.

Raider

That makes the Ferengi shuttle our raider class. A larger version of the pod, this would have the same bonuses as the earlier vessels (ie: long range, raiding bonus etc) and be able to take on lightly armed enemy ships. Again, however, it would not be a true warship, relying on numbers to be effective.

War Cruiser

Here’s where the Ferengi finally start to get decent fighting ships. In the TNG episode ‘Rascals’, it is established that the Ferengi have access to surplus Klingon navy vessels, specifically B’rel class Birds of Prey (this episode also establishes that the B’rel is a CRUISER sized bird of prey, and not a scout class ship as is so often portrayed on other sites and in vanilla BOTF – see the upcoming Canon Klingons for more). Whether you like or loath this episode, it does allow our Ferengi to build cloaking B’rel class cruisers in our mod. And given the previous weak classes of ships, this is probably a good thing, allowing previously militarily outclassed players to build masses of effective cloaking ships that may well deter any ‘hostile takeover’ of Ferengi territory.

Strike Cruiser

In the Strike cruiser slot, we can now place the ubiquitous D’kora Class Marauder. It might be better to rename the Strike Cruiser slot as the ‘Marauder’ slot. Here we have the quintessential Ferengi starship with all the advantages (long range, speed, great at raiding and a decent heavy fighting vessel, only slightly less effective than a Federation Galaxy ship). Together with the B’rel and in decent numbers, the D’kora will help make the Ferengi presence felt throughout the galaxy.

Marauder

This leaves the Marauder slot to be filled. If the D’kora is in the previous slot, what have we left? Well, fortunately, there is one other ship we can use. In TNG episode, ‘Peak Performance’, the Enterprise is attacked and crippled by the ‘Ferengi Attack Ship’ Kreechta. On screen, it is clearly a D’kora class vessel, but optimized for military use. Since we don’t know the official Ferengi name for this ship type, we can call it by the ship name ie: Kreechta Class Attack Ship. We already have a Marauder named slot for the previous ship, so lets rename this slot ‘Attack Ship’. The Kreechta has enough beam firepower to reduce the Enterprise’s shields ‘to one fifth intensity’ (ie: 20%) in one attack run. In the game, it can be represented as a slightly larger D’kora with a different colour scheme (more purple and tan). Of interest, the beams used by the Kreechta in TNG ‘Peak Performance’ are the same orange colour as Federation Phasers.

Of course, the upgrades for all these ships will be even better.

Since we never see Ferengi colony ships, transports, outposts and starbases in the tv series, I’ll leave it up to the modder to fill in these ship slots.

So, our final Canon Ferengi list is as follows:

Explorer – Probe
Light Raider – Ferengi Pod
Raider – Ferengi Shuttle
War Cruiser – B’rel
Marauder – D’kora
Attack ship – Kreechta

Colony Ship – Tomax?
Troop Transport – Glantor?
Outpost - Outpost class?
Starbase - Starbase class?


Canon Ferengi Gameplay

Major changes in playing style will need to be used if you intend to play the Ferengi in a realistic manner. In the Canon mod, I would give the Ferengi the following advantages:

Fast Ships – Ferengi ships in Star Trek are noted for their high speeds. In TNG ‘The Last Outpost’ the Enterprise D, the fastest ship in the Federation at the time, took a long time to run down the D’kora they were chasing. In TNG ‘Menage A Troi’, La Forge states that the Krayton (a Ferengi D’kora, ‘is almost as fast as the Enterprise’). So, speedwise, I would rank them just below the Federation.

Longest Range Ships – There are indications on screen that Ferengi vessels also have exceptional range. In the ‘Enterprise’ era, they already are able to reach Earth space in the Alpha Quadrant. In VOY ‘Infinite Regress’ Seven of Nine identifies them as ‘Species 180’, indicating that they penetrated the Delta Quadrant at a very early stage. Therefore, in the Canon Mod, Ferengi vessels will have the greatest range of any starship classes.

Best Economy – The standard game does this very well, and I see no real need to change these settings. The Ferengi advantages in money making are obvious both on television, and in Birth of the Federation. My only concession would be to maybe give the Ferengi an initial treasury of credits to help offset their early military weakness.

Can Steal Ships and Money – All Ferengi vessels should have bonuses when raiding. Commerce raiding should be second nature to them. On screen, the Ferengi have also demonstrated a marked talent to acquire other races ships. They ransacked the NX Enterprise, stole the Stargazer, and nearly acquired the Enterprise D. And these are only the ships we know about! They should therefore be given increased bonuses for stealing ships during espionage (this can be seen as a balancing factor in the early game, see weak fleet below). This also provides an explanation for Picard’s failure to identify the Ferengi in TNG ‘The Last Outpost’. If his Ferengi attacker at the Battle of Maxia was using a captured alien vessel, or an allied ship, then it’s natural that Picard would not recognize an actual Ferengi starship.

Good diplomacy through money – Again, the standard game does this quite well. Increased money equals increased bribery which equals increased success in persuading minor races to join you empire. They can thus diplomatically equal the Federation.

But of course, there are also disadvantages to balance out the race.

Initial Weak Fleet – From looking at the canon shiplist, it’s obvious that the Ferengi begin in a very weak military position with regards to ships. This should bring home the point that the Ferengi are not a military but an ECONOMIC empire. Any player who plays the Ferengi as if they are still playing the standard game, expecting to go toe to toe with their enemies in battle will be sorely disappointed. The early game for the Ferengi should be spent sending their long range ships all over the galaxy to establish multiple trade routes, bribe new members into the Alliance and steal competitor’s ships. These last two tasks, if done well, will offset your early weak ships. Many minor races (such as the Tamarians, have excellent ships, that are often better than the initial fleets of rival empires). By acquiring these races, you can use their ships to bolster your early fleet. Again, by pouring money into your espionage services and using your long range ships to make initial contacts with rivals, you can begin stealing their ships to again bolster the Ferengi navy, until decent ships are available to you. Playing against the computer, your ample funds should keep attackers at bay by bribes and gifts. Against a human opponent via multiplay, you will have to resort to a bit of Ferengi ‘groveling’. It would be well to remind them that you are much more useful to them alive by agreeing to an annual monetary tribute. When you are finally ready to deal with them, you can then alert them to the termination clause in the fine print of the contract they signed!

Minus combat penalties – The standard game also does this very well, emphasizing the non military nature of the Ferengi. Again, the acquisition of minors with ship training buildings can help offset this.

Average research – Ferengi advances have usually been shown to have been the result of buying rather than developing technology. The acquiring of warp technology is a prime example. However, there are moments of real Ferengi research brilliance (metaphasic shielding). I see Ferengi commercial acquisition as canceling out any Ferengi native research (why develop something you can buy?). Research should therefore be average.

Expensive Ships – Ferengi should have the most expensive ships in the game (to simulate the number of sub contractors and overheads each building project will attract). But if played well, they should be up to their earlobes in cash, so that this should not be a major problem.

So that’s my idea of a canon Ferengi side in Birth of the Federation. Not for a beginner, but an experienced player who can trade on the strengths while minimizing the weaknesses, can end up being Grand Nagus of the galaxy.

Canon Ferengi motto would be ‘Deal and Steal’



Canon Cardassian Gameplay (to be used with my first article ‘Canon Cardassians’)

In a canon mod, I see the Cardassians as a slowly expanding and consolidating race. In general, gameplay should closely follow the standard version of the game, with the following changes.

Orbitals – Having seen what these orbitals did to the allied fleet at the First Battle of Chintoka, I think these Cardassian structures deserve a major overhaul. To make all orbitals effective in the game, I suggest doubling their ratings from 80 to 160. For the Cardassian upgrade (whether directly or through a building), I think a rating of at least 400 is in order. Before the upgrade, Cardassian territory would be very difficult to acquire. There is some support for this onscreen, by the fact that after the Border wars with the Federation, the only Cardassian territory lost was ceded by treaty.

After the orbital upgrade would have the effect of making Cardassian territory EXTREMELY difficult to conquer. Again, some evidence for this can be seen in Deep Space Nine. During the Dominion War, the only enemy territory taken during the majority of the whole war was Chintoka (Deep Space 9 doesn’t count because the Cardassian/Dominion alliance held only the station and not the whole Bajoran planetary system).

Starships – In general, gameplay again would follow the standard pattern. Cardassian ships (Hideki’s, Galors and Keldons) would generally be a good match for standard enemy ships, and only outclassed by the top of the line models (with the exception of the Obsidian Keldon). Cardassian war vessels would be characterized by average weaponry (compressor beams) before the upgrade, and high quality weaponry (disruptors, plasma torpedos) after the upgrade. Also, heavy ship armour would be a feature of their ships, especially the Galors and Keldons (witness the amount of punishment Gul Dukat’s ship Prakesh -Galor Type 3 upgrade in game terms- took when their shields were knocked out by 3 Birds of Prey in DS9 ‘Way of the Warrior’). Again, also note how an Obsidian Keldon survived a full spread of quantum torpedos in DS9 ‘Defiant’, with only shield and power loss.

Speaking of the Obsidian Keldon, onscreen evidence confirms that this vessel should have a cloaking device, as shown in DS9 ‘The Die Is Cast’. The arguments that these devices were destroyed in the gamma quadrant, or that the Cardassians did not for some reason learn the workings of the Romulan cloaking devices, are nullified by the fact that Gul Dukat had a fully functioning Klingon cloak in his captured Bird of Prey, which would have been studied by both the military and Obsidian Order.

A final note on the timing of the Cardassian naval upgrade. I have seen some sites imply that this was as a result of the Dominion alliance. Onscreen evidence, however, totally disproves this. The Obsidian Keldons in DS9 ‘The Die Is Cast’ were clearly upgraded. This was well before Gul Dukat forged the alliance with the Dominion (in fact, the Keldon’s were trying to destroy the Dominion!). A far more likely time for the beginning of the ship upgrades would be after the Border Wars. In TNG ‘The Wounded’, Captain Maxwell believes the Cardassians are rearming for a new round of hostilities. This makes perfect sense. The Cardassians, seeing their ships currently outclassed, would begin upgrades to be on a more equal footing for the next war. The tan coloured warships start to appear after this time. By the time of DS9 ‘The Way of the Warrior’, the process may have been completed (maybe one reason why the Klingons encountered such strong opposition).

Ship Range and speed – Cardassian ship ranges would generally be the shortest of the major powers. In Deep Space 9, Cardassians are generally never far from their borders or Bajor. Short range is in keeping with their slow, steady expansion mode of operation. Again, ship speed would seem to be the slowest of the major races. The fastest Cardassian ship seen, the Obsidian Keldon, barely kept up with the Defiant (itself not the fastest ship in the Federation Fleet).

Espionage – The standard game portrays Cardassian espionage very well. In general, I see their espionage as being the best in the game, equaled only by the Dominion, with the Romulans coming a close second.

So, my idea for canon Cardassians is of a slow, steady expanding power, which is very good at making the best use of conquered races,of having first class espionage and sabotage operatives, and of fortifying the territory they have taken.

Canon Cardassian motto would be ‘Take, Exploit, Consolidate’


(I have developed ship stats and descriptions for all these ships, and may try modding again at a probably later date).

Next installment: Canon Klingons ‘Qapla’!!!!!!

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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by thunderchero » Sun May 06, 2012 11:35 pm

geon wrote:Don't know why all the words have gone funny, but here it is again for your viewing pleasure.
It was an unfortunate error when tranfering forum twice. :(
geon wrote:Here’s where the Ferengi finally start to get decent fighting ships. In the TNG episode ‘Rascals’, it is established that the Ferengi have access to surplus Klingon navy vessels, specifically B’rel class Birds of Prey (this episode also establishes that the B’rel is a CRUISER sized bird of prey, and not a scout class ship as is so often portrayed on other sites and in vanilla BOTF – see the upcoming Canon Klingons for more). Whether you like or loath this episode, it does allow our Ferengi to build cloaking B’rel class cruisers in our mod. And given the previous weak classes of ships, this is probably a good thing, allowing previously militarily outclassed players to build masses of effective cloaking ships that may well deter any ‘hostile takeover’ of Ferengi territory.
I added colorized version into my multi player mod. :wink:


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Re: what ship models would you like to see created?

Post by kirk1827 » Fri May 11, 2012 8:59 am

HI, I would like to see some of these ships if possible. (If you guys want pictures I'll post them)

- Millennium Falcon
- Slave 1 (Boba Fett's ship)
- Imperial and Rebel ships in general
- Death Star
- Lambda Class Shuttle

- Enterprise NX - 01 (from Enterprise series)
- USS Enterprise NCC - 1701 (the ORIGINAL series one)

- Moya (from Farscape)
- The Agamemnon (from Babylon 5)
- Gunstar (From movie, The Last Starfighter)
- Space Battleship Yamato
- Serenity (from Firefly)
- UD4L Cheyenne Dropship (from Aliens {2})

And alot more. :twisted:
Excuse me… Excuse me. I’d just like to ask a question… What does God need with a starship?
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Our gods are dead. Ancient Klingon warriors slew them a millenia ago. They were...more trouble than they were worth.
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