testers needed for new files

This forum is for outdated or irrelevant Modding Information that may or may not be 3 months old.

Moderator: thunderchero

User avatar
thunderchero
Site Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Site  Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Posts: 6453
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:00 am
Location: On a three month training mission, in command of the USS Valiant.
Contact:

testers needed for new files

Post by thunderchero » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:18 pm

Hi Everyone,

After looking at the hades files I started looking into replacement of some of the other dll files to improve performance.

New files;

"trek.exe" this is an updated trek.exe with the latest jokers patch for sp3 that is in stand alone download

"Msvcrt.dll" v 10.00.21003.1 (current version used by BOTF v 5.00.7022) This file controls C++ run time functions and some memory functions.

"drvmgt.dll" v unknown "the latest version" use unknown

"dplayerx.dll" v unknown "the latest version" this file may be part of SafeDisc cd protection and have no effect

http://www.4shared.com/file/HxZ6Qs9K/test_files.html

in rar file there is 2 folders "vanilla" and "Mod" since all mods edit trek.exe it is excluded in that folder.

to use these files backup all files to be copied then add to install path.

let me know your results.

In my limited testing battles seem a little quicker (less lag), turn time was unaffected. and almost no crashes tested on vanilla hades 2.2 with direct3d settings.

thunderchero

User avatar
Prometheus
Cadet 4th Year
Cadet 4th Year
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 2:00 am

Post by Prometheus » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:24 am

Hi, Thunderchero

Goodone and I are currently working on dll patch for BOTF, and are in process of testing most of the dlls that game uses.

Namely, Msvcrt.dll game is using this file, from windows/system32 directory, so we are in process of determining whether or not this file is actually needed in game folder.

drvmgt.dll and dplayerx.dll, are both SafeDisc files that are in no use, with Jokers patch.

We are currently testing new versions of iccvid.dll and Mss32.dll, so far testing is promising so, very soon we will know more about this subject, and prepare a dll patch that may be implemented in new version of Hades should you want to create it, namely in Hades3.0 or as a separate dll patch. :D
Noo Ani Anquietas Hic Qua Videum - We are the Ancients, this is the place of our legacy.

goodone
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina, Serbia, Europe
Contact:

Post by goodone » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:01 pm

besides .exe, none of those files game actually uses [and i guess vanilla install would crash or behave unexpectedly]. i wonder how u could see any change at all, thunderchero. imo it was simply a placebo effect.

also, safedisc files are not compatible between versions. if u decide to replace some safedisc files with new versions, u must replace them all.

so, this includes, at least, the following:
1. clcd16.dll
2. clcd32.dll
3. clokspl.exe
4. dplayerx.dll
5. drvmgt.dll
6. secdrv.sys
7. companioning .idc file

possibly others...

anyway, since safedisc versions are not compatible between themselves, it's best to leave them alone.

also, safedisc is of no relevance to no-cd patches or mods. and i rly think that there isn't a single person who uses 1.0 version anyways.

at last, exchanging a version of visual c++ is not a rly smart idea.

the game knows only about pre-winsxs dll datastore, so that limits it to version pre-2005, meaning 7, which comes with winxp, and i am sure, win7/vista too. exchanging visual c++ 7 for visual c++ 2010 [version 10] should be avoided at all costs, unless u seek to recompile the entire game again.

so, unless u have some very old [like win95] os, that file is not used also.

but...

there are other update-able things we are already testing for a week or two:
1. miles sound system driver update,
2. microprose graphics interface driver for pII patch,
3. updated radius cinepak codec.

we sought out and tested various file versions and version trees, and currectly testing the lastest best combination of up-to-date working files.

prometheus and i already discussed releasing a dll patch that will update these files, and we agreed that we'll release a dll patch after a diligent testing.

we would be happy to share our work with everybody here, so let this be an official request for thunderchero to allow this patch to be released on download section of the site.

it is our opinion we'll have it completed in a week or so.

User avatar
Flocke
BORG Trouble Maker
BORG Trouble Maker
Posts: 2582
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:00 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Post by Flocke » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:12 pm

I think the reason why some of those files have been kept is cause people havn't been sure if dynamically loading the dlls really has been completely removed - so yes, a placebo effect maybe. :lol:
As for Msvcrt.dll, only cause it's of a later ms vs version, it doesn't have to be completely incompatible, but still might benefit of slight bugfixes and speed improvements. I wouldn't expect any noticable improvement though, so I'd prefer keeping the old version, too, but why not giving it a try...

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your results! :)

Two additions I have. For testing which dlls are loaded by botf or not, use
http://www.dependencywalker.com/ :!:
And for cleaning the main installation folder of botf, I just stumbled about the following article and think it would be a nice addition for the next installer:
http://www.codeguru.com/Cpp/W-P/dll/article.php/c99

cheers

goodone
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina, Serbia, Europe
Contact:

Post by goodone » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:54 pm

it seems i wasn't quite clear.

visual c++ differs too much between version. libraries are preety much incompatible and a application complied on one version should not be made to use another version libraries. it is possible to do it, but it should not be done. it may work more or less, but possibilities for an error are too great.

it's almost like programming in pascal and trying to make that app work on c++ libraries.

that's why microsoft developed dll datastore in the 1st place, so one can have visual c++ 2005 and 2008 and 2010 on a single system. and not just different major version, but u can install more than a single revision inside a version.

so, even the following example is possible: three visual c++ 2005, two visual c++ 2008, and one visual c++ 2010 on a single system, all working correctly and not messing with each other.

so, updating msvcrt.dll is not necessary. it simply isn't used [it doesn't get loaded], unless botf is run on win95 [which lacks msvcrt.dll version 5]. on winxp it uses os native version 7 [from sys32], which is the last known pre dll datastore visual c++ library collection version [and those are much more compatible between themselves]. so, it could be updated to version 7, but even that is not necessary [as no one uses win95 nowdays].

User avatar
Flocke
BORG Trouble Maker
BORG Trouble Maker
Posts: 2582
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:00 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Post by Flocke » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:04 pm

nagnagnag

hey, I can say you're wrong, referring to dependencywalker msvcrt.dll get's loaded a dozen times! And as you can read in the second link I posted, the dlls inside the game folder have a higher priority than in system folder on loadup.

But well, that's also the problem why you're right. Giving it a test is not the problem but with all the indirect backreferences you never can be sure if it'll work with all the other dlls on each and every system. Commonly known as dll-hell they all might be used to a different version of the dll.
I agree that it might be the better solution to just remove the file and hope it will be inside system32 or so and be compatible to botf. At least it could be expected compatible to the other loaded os libraries.

:P

goodone
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina, Serbia, Europe
Contact:

Post by goodone » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:07 am

flocke, please try to use some kind of a process viewer, and take a look at loaded modules for trek.exe, when u're running it.

it will show u the following:
1. msvcrt.dll [as well as other visual c++ dll libraries] does not get loaded from botf folder,
2. mpr97.dll is, in particular, loading msvcrt.dll [at least, it's the only one directly loading it].

so, because of 2. we have:
1. application specific paths are ignored,
2. dll dependency falls to whatever dll one has installed/registered on one's system.

this gets affirmed by 1. also, 2.2. shows us that we can easily dismiss any visual c++ dll from botf directory.

so, it all falls on hoping that ppl do have enough clean and working system for botf to find a compatible dll collection.

unfortunately, this isn't a perfect solution, it's in fact a very bad one, as u already noted. but, there isn't much we can do about it. the way trek.exe is loading mpr97.dll and the way mpr97.dll is loading msvcrt.dll, as far as i know, can't be changed.

this all gets even worse, since we can't control how other dlls get loaded at this point: another msvcrt.dll version in working folder, which may or may not get loaded at some point [by who knows what function of who knows which dll], may only complicate things more. it would be worse having different versions of a single dll loaded all together [aka dll hell] as opposed to a single version which we can't control.

so, it is my opinion that, since visual c++ is rather all-popular, and msvcrt.dll must be the most loaded dll across broad application spectrum, we can rely on having a working copy of msvcrt.dll in sys32 folder on a user's computer, and stick with that.

sidenotes...

as for dependencies viewer, i suggest fileinfo plugin for tc . it's not so advanced, but it is advanced enough, and since i simply dislike installing a new program, i imagine others may feel similarly. :D

on the other hand, every single advanced user should have some kind of a process viewer installed on system [and i do not mean windows task manager].

KrazeeXXL
BORG Trouble Maker
BORG Trouble Maker
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:00 am
Location: the 36th Chamber

Post by KrazeeXXL » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:30 am

goodone wrote:every single advanced user should have some kind of a process viewer installed on system [and i do not mean windows task manager].
any suggestions? I'm looking for a new one atm.

goodone
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina, Serbia, Europe
Contact:

Post by goodone » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:05 am

i am the kind of person that sticks to good old working things that shouldn't be changed unless broken.

so, i'm still using xp sp3, and will not switch to win7 anytime soon. i'm also custom to nsw [norton system works, latest version 2009] which comes with, among windoctor [registry cleaner], unerase [advanced recycle bin], norton cleanup and wipeinfo tools, a decent powerfull process viewer [which is a freeware]. process viewer can be used as an individual app too. it has everything a typical advanced user / it prof would need. but i am not sure whether it works under win7 [it might].

one of the most packed [and rather complex], but respected apps is System Explorer. i find it a bit too burdened with some custom options [like sending file to virustotal], but it's decent. haven't used it much...

the one i know almost everyone uses is Sysinternals Process Explorer and its other sub-apps. whether it has everything u will need, i do not know, since i am not actively using it, but i guess it must have all of the basic advanced functions [if it doesn't show dll paths, then it is preety lame].

ofc, there are others. a simple search will show up some reviews to help u select the right one.

i hope this info was helpful.

User avatar
Tethys
Past Administrator
Past Administrator
Posts: 2065
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:00 am
Location: Your mom's bed ;)
Contact:

Post by Tethys » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:35 am

norton blows, AVG rules:

virus count - 0
resources used - minimum :P
money spent - $0 :mrgreen:
Not for the weak of heart...
Image
GALM <--- GALM/Galaxies Mod

goodone
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina, Serbia, Europe
Contact:

Post by goodone » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:08 am

i wasn't speaking about malware protection, but system tools.

as for norton, i do use nis, but that's completely different story.

please, update ur information.

KrazeeXXL
BORG Trouble Maker
BORG Trouble Maker
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:00 am
Location: the 36th Chamber

Post by KrazeeXXL » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:28 pm

goodone wrote: the one i know almost everyone uses is Sysinternals Process Explorer and its other sub-apps. whether it has everything u will need, i do not know, since i am not actively using it, but i guess it must have all of the basic advanced functions [if it doesn't show dll paths, then it is preety lame].
I used this one in the past but didn't like it at the end (although it has nice features as Sysinternals in general). I need one which is absolutely able to force itself to the foreground in no time like the standard windows task manager.
goodone wrote: ofc, there are others. a simple search will show up some reviews to help u select the right one.
yea, ofc. that's what I'd have done as next step anyway. Just wanted to ask ppl here in the forum at afc about their opinions. Reading reviews of other forums ppl is a thing that I'm able to do later anyway ;)
goodone wrote: i hope this info was helpful.
thx for your time. I'll try out process viewer and system explorer. I hope I'll find something that fits my needs :)

User avatar
Peter1981
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1118
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 2:00 am
Location: England

Post by Peter1981 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:57 pm

my dad had Zuse virus AVG didn't remove it... however 2hr and total control of his coputer turned over to the tech finacial crime unit at his bank sorted it out.

User avatar
thunderchero
Site Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Site  Administrator aka Fleet Admiral
Posts: 6453
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:00 am
Location: On a three month training mission, in command of the USS Valiant.
Contact:

Post by thunderchero » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:53 pm

goodone wrote:but...

there are other update-able things we are already testing for a week or two:
1. miles sound system driver update,
2. microprose graphics interface driver for pII patch,
3. updated radius cinepak codec.

we sought out and tested various file versions and version trees, and currectly testing the lastest best combination of up-to-date working files.

prometheus and i already discussed releasing a dll patch that will update these files, and we agreed that we'll release a dll patch after a diligent testing.

we would be happy to share our work with everybody here, so let this be an official request for thunderchero to allow this patch to be released on download section of the site.

it is our opinion we'll have it completed in a week or so.
Any news on your project??

thunderchero

goodone
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Lieutenant-Junior Grade
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Novi Sad, Vojvodina, Serbia, Europe
Contact:

Post by goodone » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:52 am

thunderchero wrote:Any news on your project??
yup. i hope i'll release those files this week. but, they will need more testing, since we had only a limited time to test it.

but, so far so good. we had no more trouble than usual. tested on three configurations, one intel-based cpu/gpu laptop, one amd-based cpu/gpu desktop and another amd-based cpu nvidia-based gpu desktop. we played more than 350 turns, with only a few occasional crashes [no combat crashes at all]. we played bop 1.2c, using manual install procedure:

Code: Select all

optimal botf bop installation guide 1.5
by goodone
http://profiles.yahoo.com/gwzrd
published according to the creative commons attribution-share alike license!
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0

1. botf original,
2. botf 1.02 joker patch [autoinstall ok],
3. multipack 0.19 [manually better, autoinstall for win9x],
4. hades 2.2 [autoinstall ok, will copy disc files on hard],
5. mod [bop, manually],
6. finalpatch dll [new versions] & ship fix [fix ship texture differences; get ship _a & _b to 256px & _c to 128px; use resample&sharpen & restore palette],
6a. custom prometheus preference: patch for race pics & 666 out of shiplist.sst file,
7. delete backup/temp files & msvcrt.dll [not needed, uses os] from botf dir,
8. performance: set 3D=DIRECT3D in stbof.ini file.
everyone's testing will be much appreciated.

@thunderchero:
so, what's ur idea on future development of this patch?
1. releasing a separate dll patch?
2. incorporating it in joker's patch?
3. incorporating it in hades's patch?

u will ofc incorporate it is multi-install, and i think that's a swell idea since so many ppl are using it.

in my opinion, 3. is not a good idea, but maybe for microprose graphics interface driver for pII patch, since it adds those files anyways. but, 1. & 2. should only be added to joker's patch, if he's into re-releasing it again, possibly as 1.03 version.

1. is, ofc, just a fine idea too, since it will give modders a freedom to test it or use it in their mods.

on other things mentioned, i hope that u agree on:
1. not changing msvcrt.dll, or at least not updating it to a newer version than 7.x [we are going to release dll patch with version 7.0.2600.5512, which comes with winxp sp3, just for the sake of win9x, if anyone's playing botf on it at all, cause it might get loaded there & still should be compatible just fine].
2. not changing safedics dlls - the game was released and is compatible only with safedisc 1.x version, so changing any or all files to newer safedics version will probably just break it, or at least add to instability; also, mods are not using it at all.

ur thoughts?

Post Reply

Return to “Modding Information Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users