TOS MOD -- suggestons and ideas needed please

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Sela
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Post by Sela » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:36 pm

Cant wait until it's done! How do you plan to implement the tholian web?

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Post by Peter1981 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:21 am

I was waiting for some one to ask this ... It is unlikly that in 3d combat the tholians will have a web. sadly this is not possible without completely gutting the combate program. Thanks Sela for the question...

If anyone has a good surgestion as to how to implement this then please post it.

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Post by Sela » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:03 pm

Maybe you could make it a starbase or outpost without the sensor and repair benefits. It would still have to use regular weapons but the monsters do too. You could make the tholian troop transports into cruisers that way. Cuts down on the number of ships you need to design as well.

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Post by Peter1981 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:11 pm

I'm thinking of replacing the TNG monsters with these from TOS
  • Code: Select all

    Borg Cube...........Cube................Planet Killer (TOS 'The Doomsday Machine')
    Gaseous Lifeform....Calamarain..........? *note1	
    Dreadnaught.........Chodak..............Whale Probe (ST4 'The Voyage Home')
    Unknown Lifeform....Crystal Entity......Space Amoeba (TOS 'The Immunity Syndrome')
    Combat Drone........Echo papa 607.......Nomad Probe
    Alien Entity........Edo Guardian........? *note2	
    Sentient Starship...Gomtuu..............Fesarious (TOS 'The Corbomite Maneuve')
    Husnock vessel......Husnock.............Kzinti Police Vessel (TAS 'The Slaver Weapon')
    Orbital Battery.....Orbital Battery.....Orbital Battery (N.B. no change)
    Tarellian vessel....Tarellian Vessel....Whorfin Class ('ST6 'Generations')
NOTE 1
I was going to make the Calamarain the Space Amoeba but the population depleation works well with the Amoeba's toxic affect on humanoid life, so it had to be the crystalin entity. Any suggestions for a TOS/TAS/TMP one time adversary would be appreciated!
EDIT(NOTE 1):
Could maybe put V'ger in there? powerful and malevelant entity, but would have to be way to powerful? and would work better if V'ger replaced borg and use the nova effect to represent data storage!!!! (and could I make it head for Earth??)

NOTE 2
Given the current list of minors
  • Andorians
    Ardanans
    Argelians
    Capellans
    Cheroni
    Draconians
    Ekosians
    Elasians
    Eminians
    Excalbians
    Gamesters of Triskellion
    Gideons
    Halkans
    Iotians
    Landruns
    Medusans
    Organians
    Orions
    Platonians
    Romans
    Scalosians
    Talosians
    Taureans
    Tellarites
    Tiburonians
    Troyians
    Vaalians
    Vians
    Vulcans
    Zeons
I am currently of the oppinion that the Edo Guardian will be disabled as none of the above (except the Ardanan cloud city) have any near cannon sources for an orbital facility or protective god/starbase. If anyone as any suggestion what to use this for please do make a sugestion. I am toying with the Idea of giving the 5 Major races a starting generic starbase in orbit arround their home world but i'm not sure if this is posible with in the code restriction; else I'd like to give the Fed orbiting Earth Starfleet HQ from the tech manual but I am unsure how the game / AI will responde to this.

As always any thoughts on this or any subject related to this project are greatfully recieved. Thanks.

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Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:29 am

Some notes & ideas: (given the current limitations for global monster behavior & static monsters)


@ EDO

Don't change the race ID, this would only "sort of work" and at some point even could cause crashes if old edo race ID not in game or killed.

See this post (e.g. the bit mask checks): Monster Editing Info (for experimental purposes)

So best option yet: Keep edo race-Id with monster as a (weak?) outpost/station, maybe even just for game cosmetics/diversity (e.g. Ardanan cloud city).



@ monster system attacks / global behavior


-> Tarellian Vessel = Whorfin Class (from ST 7)

Here we could add the super nova effect (i.e. Dr. Soran achieves a trilithium torpedo - inhabited systems only, since he needs materials & external support).

The idea behind is, that the event is easy to prevent, since the ship doesn't fire weapons (+ remove all weapons in shiplist.sst to avoid AI auto-battle issues) and the pop-loss is slow i.e. enough time to reach & destroy the ship.


-> Calamarain = Space Amoeba
Peter1981 wrote: I was going to make the Calamarain the Space Amoeba but the population depleation works well with the Amoeba's toxic affect on humanoid life
Do it! Amoeba eating planets (i.e. resisting gravity) sounds a bit odd anyway.


-> Crystal Entity = Planet killer / Doomsday Machine

With some creative asm-jump adjustments we can "steal" i.e. separate the change planets code from the borg code (i.e. first kill pop then destroy all or just one planet).


-> Borg = Khan's eugenic mini empire (this time with a stolen transwarp! Excelsior)

Since we can't disable the borg transwarp code, we just assume that Khan's genius accomplished the completion of the early Excelsior transwarp project...

But better than that, his warriors will conquer systems, protect the systems with the monster ship (it won't move from there since system is still inhabited) and spawn a new transwarp Excelsior.

Max size of the eugenic mini empire can by set via the difficulty level number of cubes spawn limit (with the random part disabled).


Borg system attack code would look like this: (change planets code separated/used for Crystal Entity)

IF rebel system -> do nothing
else
IF pop greater X -> make a pop loss (i.e. attack/bomb system)
else
IF system inhabitant ID = owner ID -> cause rebellion(i.e. conquer system) & spawn new ship
else
->Kill pop (due to code limitations, we would have to kill conquered systems & minor races)


There will be some small issues with missing conquering messages resp getting struck (i.e. no spawn) when arrival on rebel systems. But all in all it should work fine.


EDIT:

Using "EmpsMaxTech" dynamic data, one could delay borg/Khan appearing on map till at least one empire reaches the Excelsior tech requirement.

See Scheme of the Random Events (2.4) -> borg check.
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Post by Sela » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:41 pm

I was playing tethys galaxy mod and I found that the turrets with a new model and no torpedos would make a perfect tholian web

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Post by Peter1981 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:12 pm

@SCT
thanks for the ideas I don't this week have time to go into this for the next fornight but think thie scheme is going to be close to what i want to implement (may need some more hints/tips on the khan empire ;) )

@sela
how would that make a web sela could yu explain your idea a little more?

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Post by Sela » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:02 pm

Now that I think about it, I myself have no idea why I thought that it would be better than my first suggestion.

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Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:46 am

Peter1981 wrote:@SCT
thanks for the ideas I don't this week have time to go into this for the next fornight but think thie scheme is going to be close to what i want to implement (may need some more hints/tips on the khan empire ;) )
Luckily, with the update of the modding index (added your great "Nuts and Bolts Guide") resp. the ASM hints, I catched up on my last still outstanding tasks for AFC -> the ECM update. So maybe we all can derive benefit from a deal. If you look into updating the ECM res-files i.e. doublecheck /optimise phaser mod, torpedo mod, texture mod, tga's, [maybe planet grapics should be left alone], fnt's for ship names, lexicon.bin, aibldreq.bin, ASO... (I didn't even check the ECM project topics any time recently, and I guess thunderchero is also short on time since he got the Computer Gremlins), then I'd have some scope for adapting monster code for you. No rush, its summer break anyway. Deal?



Erratic map behavior of some monsters is still a problem:

Crystal Entity / Tarellian -> erratic stay behavior i.e. won't stay long enough in systems for pop loss "if pop killed" events. Crystal doesn't even search for systems?

Calamarain -> map movement like borg i.e. transwarp jump to next system (with erratic stay behavior).

So current suggested: (coding start not until the best/easiest ideas have been collected & approved)

- Borg = Khan's eugenic warriors suggestion

- Planet killer -> remove pop loss code -> put in one planet/turn destroyed (check new system pop capacity & if current pop greater then update accordingly) maybe disabled for AI systems, but even for inhabited systems? (see map behavior comment)

- Tarellian / Whorfin -> Random factor for trilithium torpedo / super nova effect (disabled for home & AI systems, but maybe even for inhabited systems)


This pic by JBL (enlarged & with ship=system) could be funny for the system attack message:

Also you could replace the borg "resistance is futile" tactical combat voice with Kirk's Khaaan scream (maybe beepo can help with this).
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Post by Peter1981 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:07 am

@SCT thank for the positive feed back I am going to be very busy until the second week in may (I running for election) so I'm looking in but not working on the project thil then, I will definately help you after that. Thanks.

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Post by Peter1981 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:42 am

I said back on this project mid may it now near end of july and I'm just getting back to it. Working on 5. minor race buildings and some recent code updates. I'll give a full update soon.

EDIT:

i ment June army37 -- time realy does seem to fly!! lol
Last edited by Peter1981 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Army37 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:57 pm

End of JULY already?

time flies where you live....it still the end of JUNE where I am....you must be on Romulus :P

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Post by crashpm » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:18 am

If you're having trouble coming up with more ship designs for the Gorn or Tholians maybe try using the Xindi instead. They have at least 5 ship types shown on screen in enterprise.

Then again the Xindi have no influence on ToS.
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Post by Peter1981 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:51 am

Thanks for the thought crashpm, but the consenus is for TOS-ST7:G. even then some would like me just to use pure TOS -- but that would mean constitution, woden, DY-100 for the fedz, D7 for the klingons and Warbird and D7 for the Romulans, no ships for the Gorn and 1 ship for the tholians. so I've got to include stuff from the tech manuel, and draw on inspiration from the various games.

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Post by marhawkman » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:23 pm

did you consider Kzinti as a possible minor?

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