Thunderchero's Multi-player mod (updated 9-26-16)

Thunderchero's Multi-player mod; showcase and support/discussion/questions/suggestions/reviews

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Thunderchero's Multi-player mod (updated 9-26-16)

Post by thunderchero » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:59 pm

This file is now part of the BOTF All in One 1.0.0 installer

Hi All multi-player fans,

File updated 9-26-16 (removed sun animations for AMD video conflict)

I have started putting together the files for this project.

Here is what I have done so far. (editing list as I change things)

Base files ECM2
added Fluids edited files
Ramming actual current hull value is used
editing ECM2 to allow phantom dilithium(i.e. not fix it) but remove warnings.
Fed Command CR (galaxy) replaced by Ambassador class (vanilla re-textured)
Fed Heavy CR (galaxy-x) replaced by Galaxy class (vanilla re-textured)
Fed Light Cruiser (Ambassador) replaced by Excelsior class (new low poly model see below)
all TTs and colony ships have speed of 1
all strike cruisers have speed of 2

Thunderchero's Multi-player mod
plan on adding

new map sizes 16 x 12 (small) 25 x 18 (med) 35 x 26 (large)

editing ship tech requirements to balance t3 and t4 games

In the other post there were more ideas so lets get this completed so post your ideas here.

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by Tethys » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:22 am

The only request I have is the removal of Ram option, or make it so that ramming ship will always be destroyed. Or I believe this post has an appropriate fix: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1210&p=18230&sid=df ... c02#p18230
Not for the weak of heart...
Image
GALM <--- GALM/Galaxies Mod

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:30 am

I forgot that one tethys, I was surprised to find that one not part of ECM2

1 other that is not part of ECM2 the ferengi free trade fix. This would make the 2 special structures the ferengi have more valuble. thoughts?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1057&p=15460&hilit= ... c35#p15460

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by xDx » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:38 am

A couple ideas come to mind...

---ship scrapping could be reset to 50% or possibly 100% for the extra cash.

---Every empire could, at the advanced tech start, have an option to build a dilithium plant for +2 dil at the cost of morale and high energy, I know phantom will be enabled but this just gives everyone the option to crank out ships real quick for them sudden deathmatch MP games.

---Ram I think should use the hull value based on each turn not the total value of hull each turn i.e. a Card Galor class shouldnt be able to take out two Galaxies because their hull is higher overall. Cards still have initial advantage but is negated after a turn or two. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1210&p=18230&sid=70 ... c35#p18230

---Since minors have been fixed to start better developed on higher techs the Feds bribe ability should be slightly lowered (gift effect value 1.25 instead of 1.5) or increase the amount they must pay for max gift. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12&p=13&hilit=Gifts ... 2d8c35#p13

---Cloak on gal map should be tweaked so scanners and scouts can only see certain aspects of the fleet strength to allow for more strategy on fighting with/against the underpowered Romulan ships viewtopic.php?f=9&t=66&p=424&hilit=Stea ... d8c35#p424

---galaxy maps should have higher density of planets and stellar objects (including wormholes) :)

---new commands added should include hold position and fire for effective artillery (strike cruisers) and allow ships to fire while retreating (withdraw/return fire) viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1998

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:34 pm

thunderchero wrote:Here is what I have done so far.
(...)
Ramming actual current hull value is used
You guys are just too funny. Requesting three times the same (already implemented - see above) modification... It's hilarious. :mrgreen:

thunderchero wrote:...I was surprised to find that one not part of ECM2
Well, that's because:
Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:As Gowron pointed out, in fact there is no bug - we just misinterpreted the functionality of the ram feature in BotF. Ram damage, applied to both ships, is determined by the lower nominal hull of the both ships.
viewtopic.php?p=17612&sid=b59fbdb0f9360 ... af1#p17612

I.e. this modification, albeit stable, in fact creates a sort of out of sync bug within BotF. Also for vanilla('ish mods) it's not that of an issue due to the overpowered weapons vs. shields/hull ratio, plus the default provides a nice option for the ram command when a ship is going to be lost anyway, but it's close to an enemy... :wink:
But I also think most of the multi players will prefer the modification. :)
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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:29 pm

Hi everyone,

I am still waiting for some more ideas/confirmations of what should be added to this mod.

So while I was waiting......

This is not my normal place to post ship model preview, But since this model was made just for this mod here is a low poly Excelsior.



polygons 628 (3 point)
polygons combined 433
interpenetration tolerance 0.0100
vertex number 1422
hob size 143 KB
3 textures (1 palette)

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:31 pm

Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:
thunderchero wrote:Here is what I have done so far.
(...)
Ramming actual current hull value is used
You guys are just too funny. Requesting three times the same (already implemented - see above) modification... It's hilarious. :mrgreen:
To be fair to other posters I have been editing first post as I make changes so they were suggested before changes were made.

I have also updated first post with a link to preview of mod and changes so far (dissy requested a peek of mod)

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by anjel » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:10 pm

this one looks really good, even the the low poly count, the texture completes what´s lack in mesh detail.
A wonderfull ship for multiplayer game, so you can build a lot of them.
Live long and propser

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:28 am

xDx wrote:---ship scrapping could be reset to 50% or possibly 100% for the extra cash.
I would like to see how the settings of ECM2 works out (some testing). if reset to 50 or 100% this will allow exploit of build upgrade exploit. and if needed ship maintenance can be lowered to allow larger fleets.
xDx wrote:---Every empire could, at the advanced tech start, have an option to build a dilithium plant for +2 dil at the cost of morale and high energy, I know phantom will be enabled but this just gives everyone the option to crank out ships real quick for them sudden deathmatch MP games.
since all the fluid mod setting are being used it had already increased % chance of dilth systems. also as stated the phantom dilth will be enabled.
xDx wrote:---Ram I think should use the hull value based on each turn not the total value of hull each turn i.e. a Card Galor class shouldnt be able to take out two Galaxies because their hull is higher overall. Cards still have initial advantage but is negated after a turn or two. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1210&p=18230&sid=70 ... c35#p18230
already added.. :wink:
xDx wrote:---Since minors have been fixed to start better developed on higher techs the Feds bribe ability should be slightly lowered (gift effect value 1.25 instead of 1.5) or increase the amount they must pay for max gift. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12&p=13&hilit=Gifts ... 2d8c35#p13
As Dissy pointed out this mod would be best kept as close to vanilla as possible. but the setting to allow building of minors ships that fluids mod used will be also kept.
xDx wrote:---Cloak on gal map should be tweaked so scanners and scouts can only see certain aspects of the fleet strength to allow for more strategy on fighting with/against the underpowered Romulan ships viewtopic.php?f=9&t=66&p=424&hilit=Stea ... d8c35#p424
I suggest either select a race to counter cloak or select the other race that cloaks lol :wink: This is a strategy game
xDx wrote:---galaxy maps should have higher density of planets and stellar objects (including wormholes) :)
This will need to be discussed while I feel stellar objects and wormholes should be left to default values. The galaxy density values will need to be edited (since galaxy size will be changed) so lets look at vanilla values

16 x 12 has 192 sectors but only had 70 stellar objects (in vanilla) 36% of sectors have stellar objects
25 x 18 has 450 sectors but only had 90 stellar objects (in vanilla) 20% of sectors have stellar objects 8O
35 x 26 has 910 sectors (new size)

I was thinking as a base line we should have 35-40% of sectors with stellar objects for all sizes?

thoughts
xDx wrote:---new commands added should include hold position and fire for effective artillery (strike cruisers) and allow ships to fire while retreating (withdraw/return fire) viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1998
all new commands are already part of ECM2/OMPM except withdraw/return fire but this was mainly for AI to be more aggressive. Human players are already aggressive. :D

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:59 pm

Ok Guys I need some input on this,

I have been looking very close at the ship stats here are some of the problems I see;

1. With new command code (no single ship selection in combat with out a command ship present) we should have a command ship available at a lower tech level for all races.

2. With strike cruisers being more effective the gap between tech requirement on "strike cruiser I" need to be adjusted.

3. "The Federation" I feel all the extra ships the feds get is creating most of the imbalances in the ship list.

So I would hate to remove any ships from the feds but I do feel we should give all other races same upgrade/new ships to balance things out. But this would also mean a few new models for all races except feds. Here is my rough draft of what I thought would work.

Code: Select all

command            3 + 4
command II         5 + 2
heavy command      8
heavy command II   9 + 4

strike cruiser     4
strike cruiser II  8

cruiser            2 + 1
cruiser II         3 + 1  
heavy cruiser      5 + 5
heavy cruiser II   8 + 4

destroyer          2
destroyer II       3 + 2
heavy destroyer    5 + 1
heavy destroyer II 8 + 3
escort             9 + 2

scout              1
scout II           4 + 3
first number would require all techs of that value + * is individual techs needed (energy, construction, weapons ect)

All races would have ship types above with the special stat changes that are already in use by races now.

outposts, starbases, colony and troop transport would be unchanged (tech requirements)

I know this would be a major change to ship stats I hope some of you give me some good input on my thoughts.

I just fear a little tweak here and there would only bring up other imbalances.

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:44 pm

Come on Guys,

Give me some feed back here.

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:08 pm

Ok I thought I should outline my ideas on ship stats changes.

As I stated before the Federation ship stats (more ships/types than other races) will be a big imbalance in any vanilla type mod like this.

step 1 create all race to have exact same types and stats as Federation.

step 2 create the variables for the other 4 races. example;

Cardassians

Positive bonuses (20%)
+ 8% hull
- 2% build cost
- 2% maintenance
+ 3% agility
+ 2% defense
+ 3% beam accuracy

negative bonuses (20%)
- 2% number of beams
- 4% beam damage
- 4% shields
- 4% torpedo damage
- 2% shield recharge
- 2% torpedo range
- 2% phaser range

this would be done for cardassians, ferengi, klingon, romulans The federation would be considered as balanced stats so would get no changes.

None of these changes has been started, I would like to see a discussion on each races specialties and set an edited % (20% was only used as an example)

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by xDx » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:01 pm

Well after a bit of a chat with TC I thought I would put my ideas on here and see what everyone else thinks.

--every major empire has essentially the same shiplist and tech requirement for each level of ship (to me this OMPM seems like we're trying to turn BotF into a RTS type game and since most RTS games have similar tech upgrades it is the units stats that determine the strategy of the game
--starting tech for each start (T1-->tech 1... T2-->tech3... T3-->tech5... T4-->tech7... T5-->tech9)
--shiplist for all empires --Scout I-->tech 1 all techs
Scout II-->tech 5 all techs plus tech 6 computer & propulsion)
Destroyer I-->tech 1 all techs
Destroyer II-->tech 3 all techs plus tech 4 in weapons, propulsion & construction
Hvy Destroyer I (Lt escort)--> tech 7 all techs
Hvy Destroyer II (hvy escort)--> tech 9 all techs plus tech 10 in propulsion & weapons
Cruiser I (will have role of early command ship i.e. Excelsior or Ambassador before Galaxy was built) tech 2 all techs
Cruiser II (back to cruiser role)--> tech 4 all techs
Cruiser III--> tech 6 all techs
Heavy Cruiser I (still cruiser role not command)--> tech 7 all techs
Heavy Cruiser II--> tech 9 all techs
Command ship I--> tech 4 all techs tech 5 weapons construction & energy (small gap with no command ship can create a little research race early to mid games?)
Command ship II (heavy command) tech 8 all techs tech 9 weapons, propulsion, construction)
Battleship--> tech 10 all techs
Strike Cruiser I--> tech 3 all techs tech 4 weapons, computer, construction
Strike cruiser II--> tech 7 all techs tech 8 weapons, computer, construction
Troop transport I--> tech 1
Troop transport II--> tech 6
Colony ship I--> tech 1
Colony ship II-->tech 5

For missing models needed for empires besides Feds I thought maybe using a "generic" TT for each empire just retextured for each empires colors... example the Cardassians for money sold the schematic of their old Groumall class TT to fund their military and the Ferengi purchased it to use for their own greedy enterprise, the Romulans interested in the sturdy hull design had TalShiar operatives steal the design from the Ferengi and the Klingons looking for a hefty hull to transport more troops captured a Ferengi crew using the ship. Or like the ep of TNG the Ferengi have retired D15? BoPs bought from the Klingons and use them as scouts or light destroyers. Essentially this allows the TT or CS model to be rescaled and retextured to make either a cruiser, destroyer, heavy cruiser for each empire lacking in a certain area.

Stats for ships could have the following general idea Ferengi (cheap ships and maintenance, agile, weapons are weakest, best range of all empires) Klingons (strong firepower, more beam placements, better beam accuracy, low defense, very agile, few torps and weaker shields and only some cloak), Romulans (all cloak weaker hulls/shields, very agile, strong torps, better torp accuracy), Cards (strong hulls slightly lower costs, not agile, good defense, less weapon placements then other empires) Feds, as TC states, can be the standard in changing other empires stats higher or lower

All colony ships and TTs have weapons

I think I am missing something but that is all I have for now

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by thunderchero » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:23 pm

xDx,

nice post, I do not think we talked about the command option but I liked your idea for the lower levels :D

here is what I came up with using the feds ship types as a base and techs are unedited.

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Re: Official Multi-player mod

Post by gentle » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:27 am

Is it possible to do something with the intel aspect on high tech games (T3,T4,T5) I like very much spying and sabotage the opponent, lots of my victories in MP games was achieved using intel. About UDM and UDML modes, my favorites modes, on high lvl tech you can do anything with the intel, all the races starting with the same amount of intel buildings, only the special buildings making a very small difference. So.. it is possible to change the number of intel buiidings? I was thinking an increase for card and romulans (decreasing the number of science buildings)and a lower amount of intel structures for fed, maybe for klings also(in compensation they can receive science or industrial structures) I think this will make the game more interesting..

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