A few topics fo discussion

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Iceman
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A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:41 am

Hi
I'd like to put a couple of topics up for discussion, to get a feel for what people think/would like to see in the game.

#1 - stored food: should the food stockpile be changed? I mean, not accumulate indefinitely, but only keep say the surplus from the last turn?

#2 - starting PF level: should we implement BotF's way of colonies starting at tech level 1 instead of current tech level? The current implementation kind of negates the option of playing/building tall vs wide empires, removing the need to make decisions about which PFs to upgrade and in which systems. It has the obvious "advantage" (which can be arguable) of reducing micro in PF upgrades - but is the cost worth it?

#3 - terraforming: should we implement it (down the line) like in BotF?

#4 - when surveying an anomaly, should the SitRep inform the player of the science area where the research points were allocated, or should it be kind of a secret thing?

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by matthewrecord » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:37 pm

1) I don't think any additional complexity on the food front is necessary. Thematically you would figure some storage of food would be a part of the larger system so I don't think long-term food carry-over is a necessary feature.

2) Colonies should likely start at level 1. Perhaps there could be levels of Colony Ships or some loading option where the more resources you invest in the ship initially the more advanced the starting circumstance of the new colony. In a way, you'd just be diverting additional resources (whether that's pop or industry or food or whatever) from an already functioning colony to a new one.

3) Some difference split between no terraforming at all and the BOTF model of being able to terraform literally every planet probably makes the most sense. Most planets should just be dead by there should be some terraforming options.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:05 pm

1) not sure I understand what your opinion on this is. Currently food is accumulated indefinitely, so it can get to absurd numbers. You can use that to micro your game,hence the question.

2) higher level colony ships already provide better starting conditions (in terms of amount of facilities and pop). With the implementation of the Buy button by Bloodwurm, upgrading PFs can now be made faster if you have the credits available.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by matthewrecord » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:12 pm

1) I guess I don't understand what you mean by "accumulation." I thought you were implying that food surpluses could be saved and used in future turns.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:09 pm

Every turn, the food surplus is added to the food reserves (as opposed to being discarded as in BotF), which means that it will grow indefinitely (unless you micro, which might feel somewhat gamey). I just dont see the logic or an evident benefit of this.Is there one, thats the question.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Mr Sneek » Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:52 pm

1) I agree with you Iceman, I don't think it's necessary. Although I'm not sure I fully understand how it works atm. Just a thought though, wouldn't keeping the surplus of last turn amount to the same thing as accumulate indefinitely?
2)Erh, what does PF mean? :razz: If I'm not mistaken it'll only partially negate the need to micro the systems. It only retains the tech level atm of colonization doesn't it?
3)The only problem I see with having all planets already terraformed is that for some systems the populationgrowth might be too high to keep up with. Though contrary to BotF you start with a lot more structures so it might not be as much of a problem as I fear. It will also depend on what decision is made regarding point 2.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:43 pm

I think I didnt express myself correctly in the OT, I apologize for that. Currently, in Sup, excess food is stored cumulatively in each colony s food reserves / stockpile; this happens every turn, so eventually a colony s food reserves will get to a huge value. My question was, should we reset the food reserves at the beginning of each turn, so that each colony can only accumulate the excess food from each turn(to use in the next turn)? The point is to reduce the MM factor, and make it feel less gamey. You could only store one turn s worth of food, not more.

PFs are production facilities, sorry. Farms, factories, etc. Those structures in the Production tab (not Buildings!). New colonies start with their PFs at the empire s current level (in BotF they start at level 1 and you have to upgrade). The questão was, should we make it like in BotF?? With the current system you dont have to spend credits to upgrade, which might throw the entire economy out of whack... Minors and all that.

I have decreased growth rates by 1 quite some time ago, and Im still considering decreasing them again by another 1 point. Hostile planets would have zero growth; this would require you to build the Immunology Center in systems with only Hostile planets, not sure how that would work. Havent had the time to test that.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:08 am

Alternatives:

#1- cap the food reserves of each colony, say to the colony s max population value.

#3- an intermediate way could be unterraformed planets would support say half their max pop, and terraforming would unlock the rest of their population capacity.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by blackace » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:11 pm

i think i get what your saying. and in part i see your point as to the problem. food itself becomes pointless at a point in the game. as well as energy and food do in botf. i haven't played much of this game. but looking into this game now. i guess the question would be. what would be the point etheir way to have food go up and up etc or cap it to 1 turn not 2 turns. due to still having the food made on that turn also. i was thinking that the only way to fix this problem would be to uncap the population so that food has a point in making at all. thus give over population and food making a problem to solve in game. as it is a real world problem today. not to be to big of a problem but something to solve. this also could be a way to do better trading with races.

my opinion ending
uncap population but give a min population amount based on food production

keep the food generation uncapped

add a limit to the planet as to how many food buildings can be made there. per race and per terraforrmer

add a population number to each ship built

if you do not have it already show the population amount to the thousand place (like 7,123,234 billion) so that when ship's are built the system minus the population

empire and ship population do not eat any planet food

the empire takes a random % form the total empire per turn. lets say 3%(if) per each planet per turn and the population has the rest. all based on how big your empire is. so bigger the empire, bigger the % that cuts into the population. so not only are you needing to keep your population happy but your troops also. this would also affect the end size of fleets per empire. making colonies as importance as homeworlds. and would also like to add in a terraforming option to make a choice between farmable or not so that if you just want a farm or defense planet you can. but each way will then be limited on the counter side.
this could be beta tested

also to keep from having a population problem add in population death % after 20 turns or so. to 1/10 the growth rate

i think this is good but i could add more if you want more. in the end food and energy atleast in botf need alot of work

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:04 pm

Food and energy are merely "upkeeps" (or population sinks if you will), that make +Food and +Energy Buildings nice as they free up population for other productio types. That's all they're meant to be.

Not sure how uncapping population but capping the number of farms would change anything?

Ships costing population was discussed a long time ago, and was discarded as it would require micromanaging population assignments. It made a lot more sense if it was for colony ships only, but even then it would be prone to MM.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by blackace » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:32 pm

all i am saying is if you give the population more weight in game. you can put more events to change the affect of the game. all did was look at are world and then i put it in the game. space for food is limited here on earth and we have overpopulation also. why not put in the game. its easier to take things that are real then make things up. just like if you made a colony ship the population used for it would leave with it. both the crew and the travelers. everything would be based on population.

also side note duet need to be upped in the larger and more long term maps i have a over flow of both dura and crystal in the 1k and 10k range's. i cant keep duet

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:20 am

Notice that in order to build a colony ship or a troop transport the colony must have a minimum amount of population. And these ship types can only be built in native systems.

Limited space for food, that's precisely what #1 is about ;)

Crew numbers are so low that it really doesn't make much sense to remove them from pop - besides the MM thing. Noticed this is a game, not a reality simulator. If you'd have to check (and probably manipulate) your pop every time a colony starts building a ship, no one in their right mind would actually play the game :D

Re Deuterium, did you build Deuterium Plants and the like in every system you control? Resources must be somewhat limited, else there's really no point to them. Might as well discard them (BotF doesn't have them for a reason).

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:36 pm

Implemented #2 as an option on game start.

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Re: A few topics fo discussion

Post by Iceman » Mon May 30, 2016 5:23 pm

#4 - when surveying an anomaly, should the SitRep inform the player of the science area where the research points were allocated, or should it be kind of a secret thing?

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