How do you building large fleets?

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Gul Sea
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How do you building large fleets?

Post by Gul Sea » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:55 pm

In the vanilla game, is there a way to speed up building a fleet?

As a supplemental question, is there a way to pay for the upkeep of a large fleet?

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Re: How do you building large fleets?

Post by thunderchero » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:46 pm

how big of fleet?

in general for vanilla use dilith exploit, build at any system and have as many system possible to support fleet.

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Gul Sea
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Re: How do you building large fleets?

Post by Gul Sea » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:53 pm

I generally start at tech level 1 and give the AI tech levels 2 or 3. So I accept I'm going to be over matched when I reach the middle game.

Between building colony ships, upgrading colonies, pouring resources into intel and research, and industrial upgrades on the home system I never seem to have capacity to build than a few destroyers or cruisers by say turn 150. Plus my income stream would be a mere few 100 credits per turn.

Browsing threads, I've seen references to fair sized human fleets relatively early in the game and I was hoping there was a knack to it. Maybe it's just start at a higher tech level.

On vanilla, tech level 1 is having a fleet of 20 Cruisers and still have a functioning economy and research by turn 150 unrealistic?

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Re: How do you building large fleets?

Post by KrazeeXXL » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:10 pm

Gul Sea wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:53 pm
Between building colony ships, upgrading colonies, pouring resources into intel and research, and industrial upgrades on the home system I never seem to have capacity to build than a few destroyers or cruisers by say turn 150. Plus my income stream would be a mere few 100 credits per turn.
Really think about the upgrading. It takes the most time. Sometimes it allows to shorten production times of ships to say from 4 to 3 turns or something. But you have to wait 15 turns to get that mass replicator upgrade. That's 15 turns where you could have built at least 5 ships.

On the other side, you badly need the ships to get money from the AI. When you don't have enough military, they're not scared of you and you won't get anything out of them.

Instead of building cruisers, you could build fast attack ships and raid enemy systems. But that's situational at best.

I'd see to get a couple of systems which just pump out ships at an efficient rate (means they shouldn't waste manpower). Upgrade production in a handful of other systems to the latest, then switch.

Fleets are the base and backbone. Only upgrade foundries when you can afford it (isolated position f.e.)

Think about if you really need that food upgrade to free 2 or 3 workers. Sometimes you built faster and it would help, in some cases it won't.

Ah, the magic of micro :mrgreen:
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Re: How do you building large fleets?

Post by Gul Sea » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 pm

KrazeeXXL wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:10 pm
Gul Sea wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:53 pm
Between building colony ships, upgrading colonies, pouring resources into intel and research, and industrial upgrades on the home system I never seem to have capacity to build than a few destroyers or cruisers by say turn 150. Plus my income stream would be a mere few 100 credits per turn.
Really think about the upgrading. It takes the most time. Sometimes it allows to shorten production times of ships to say from 4 to 3 turns or something. But you have to wait 15 turns to get that mass replicator upgrade. That's 15 turns where you could have built at least 5 ships.

On the other side, you badly need the ships to get money from the AI. When you don't have enough military, they're not scared of you and you won't get anything out of them.

Instead of building cruisers, you could build fast attack ships and raid enemy systems. But that's situational at best.

I'd see to get a couple of systems which just pump out ships at an efficient rate (means they shouldn't waste manpower). Upgrade production in a handful of other systems to the latest, then switch.

Fleets are the base and backbone. Only upgrade foundries when you can afford it (isolated position f.e.)

Think about if you really need that food upgrade to free 2 or 3 workers. Sometimes you built faster and it would help, in some cases it won't.

Ah, the magic of micro :mrgreen:
Good advice KrazeeXXL. I've probably focused too much in building upgrade over actually having a fleet. I'll try your strategy at the weekend.

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Re: How do you building large fleets?

Post by slickrcbd » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:11 pm

That's typically my weakness in all 4X games. I tend to focus too much on infrastructure and don't build enough military units.

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Re: How do you building large fleets?

Post by Korth » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:27 am

slickrcbd wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:11 pm
That's typically my weakness in all 4X games. I tend to focus too much on infrastructure and don't build enough military units.
We all have that weakness, lol, it's hard to not become attached to systems you've invested lots of turns or credits building up.

I set objectives with deadlines. "Need a fleet to invade the Feds in 25 turns" or whatever. I firmly adhere to my self-imposed deadlines unless something unexpected happens/changes or just one (okay, maybe two) turns longer would greatly improve my odds. It's the only way (for me) to get things done in a 4X game without getting sucked into micromanagement details.

Building/buying structures or upgrades is worth it only if they let me build more ships before my deadline. Maybe Replicators and Wind Turbines free up a few more populations to send into production, so I'll build/buy them first and put those people to work building credits. Maybe that Mark III Foundry Upgrade takes 9 turns and reduces ship build times by one turn each so, after 25 turns, I could build 4 (instead of 5) ships or 5 (instead of 6) ships, etc, which would be counterproductive - right now I want/need ships, I can get the upgrade after my deadline. But maybe the upgrade reduces ship build times from 3 turns to 2 turns, which makes it worthwhile because either way I get 8 ships but this way I also get Mark III Foundries.

Morale structures have long-term payoff (especially in long-term research) but they aren't worth prioritizing and don't help much before a war, especially since a *successful* war keeps generating morale bonuses anyhow, and more ships means more successes.

My primary "warships" are a mix of some Scouts and some Destroyers. Wimpy, but cheap (to build, buy, and maintain) and mobile and versatile and highly effective in quantity. Not many "invasions" occur at Long Range, but then again a mighty Short Range Battleship can hardly even reach distant war zones.

But the majority of the ships in my fleets are Transports. The best wars are those fought on the enemy's turf, so I build up lots and lots (dozens!) of Transports. I use them to quickly build a string of Outposts towards enemy territory and (along with my "warships") far-too-many Transports can invade nearly any planet with total impunity. I immediately put those planets to work building (buying) those big heavy slow warships which would otherwise take forever to bring into the war. No point building mighty fleets over 25 turns then needing another 15-25 turns to bring them across the map into the war - that's just 40-50 turns of paying high maintenance costs instead of moving forward. These subjugated planets tend to sometimes rebel, but each rebellion is just a brief hiccup in ship production and I immediately invade them again, they're all disposable enemy worlds until the war is over anyhow, and better for me to gain intermittent use from them while my enemy is denied, lol. The rest of the worlds in my empire typically focus on pumping out credits until the war is over. I sometimes keep a few of the most experienced ships around (to extinguish rebellions, mostly) but I otherwise liquidate all the slowpoke vessels after the enemy empire is vanquished and pick my next deadline for my next objective (which might actually be a non-military objective instead of another war, lol).

Some enemy planets have heavy, hardened defenses. No worry, just invade one of the nearby soft targets instead, make the population there build (buy) some Strike Cruisers, and achieve the final objective in a slightly different order. Enemy empire ship production tends to be limited (and their economy tends to be crippled) once they lose systems anyways, so populated systems might frequently change hands but you continue to grind towards inevitable victory and rarely suffer any real damage if the enemy does manage to put new ships in space. Any subjugated system with a powered shipyard and 1+ population (along with some credits) can be used to put one brand new warship/Transport in the heart of your enemy's collapsing empire each and every turn, who cares how messy and brutal and awful and destructive life in that subjugated system might be (or if it even continues to exist at all) until after the war is over.

Your empire is effectively paralyzed during the war, not a lot else gets built or researched. The enemy empire either gets wiped out or gets set back by centuries, suffering great losses and having to rebuild, no longer a threat (especially if Invasion Wave One wasn't completely successful but is followed by Invasion Wave Two). But the other three empires continue to move forward with more stuff and more tech ... you'll notice the disparity after your second or third war, not much of an issue vs dumb AI opponents but a real drawback vs human opponents in multiplayer.
[/Korth]

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