Upgrade Ships

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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redhat1968
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Upgrade Ships

Post by redhat1968 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:10 pm

Thanks for all your hard work on Supremacy. I was a frustrated old BOTF player back in 2000 and the second version plays so much better not to mention all the new additions. I searched the forum but could not find anything about upgrading ships once the research prerequesites roll through. Is this something that is apart of the current version? No complaints, just curious.

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Re: Upgrade Ships

Post by Iceman » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:15 pm

Hey redhat
I just implemented upgrading stations for the next release, so this was pretty good timing ;)

Ship upgrades will be possible in the game, yes. Here is a question, how should this be implemented? I can think of 2 ways

1 - the upgrade is automatic once you have the tech prereqs
2 - you have to get the ship into a shipyard with a free dock and issue an upgrade order

Honestly I like 2 better, one of the reasons being that upgrades are a new ship class, contrary to BotF where they are refits in the same class.I also like to have as little ´magic´ as possible in space games.

What do you guys think?

While at it, what should we do with the crew´s experience? Halve it (after all it is a new ship class) or keep it, or reset it to zero, or whatever other option?
What about costs? Besides resources, should it also cost Credits? Building ships does not cost Credits, I´m not sure if upgrading them should.

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redhat1968
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Re: Upgrade Ships

Post by redhat1968 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:05 pm

Thanks for the quick reply, Iceman. I definetly think it should be option number 2. Think of TOS NCC 1701 going to a dock right before The Motion Picture. I think if you could implement a reduced ship building resource cost to upgrade, say 50% of the energy, duranium, dilithium, and time would seem to me to be most realistic. I am just brain storming, so I am not trying to put any pressure or expectations, but a surplus depot could offer a discount of, let say 10%. Any special shipyards such as Utopia Planitia could offer 25%, meaning a total resource cost of only 25% of the cost to build the upgraded ship from scratch. Feel more than free to poke holes in my suggestion...

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Re: Upgrade Ships

Post by Iceman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:20 pm

I can make all costs be the difference between the target design and the current design. That's how it works for upgrading orbital batteries.
I'll look into the Surplus Depot and Utopia Planitia modifiers.
Thanks for your input, and if you think of anything else, please feel free to post! About any aspect of the game, not just this, ofc.

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Mr Sol
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Re: Upgrade Ships

Post by Mr Sol » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:18 pm

Yes, bring the ships back to a free shipyard for upgrading.

Now about crew XP it should be a reduction to a fraction of the actual value based on the difference in levels from the actual level to the target level, since the player can have a ship from the beginning parked somewhere till the endgame. The % is the fraction of the current crew XP will be reduced to, so, a ship from level 1, the very beginning, will be upgraded to a level 5 ship: The current crew XP will be reduced TO 15% of the current crew XP value. Reduced TO, not BY, or it will become a proportionaly inverted reduction, which we dont want. Note that the same principle is valid to a ship from lvl 3 to 4: 50% less crew XP. Now need to check if this progression isnt cheated. Enjoy!

Values suggested:
From lvl x to lvl x+1: 50%
From lvl x to lvl X+2: 33%
From lvl x to lvl x+3: 25%
From lvl x to lvl x+4: 20%
From lvl x to lvl x+5: 15%
From lvl x to lvl x+6: 10%
From lvl x to lvl x+7: 5%

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Re: Upgrade Ships

Post by Iceman » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:17 am

Hey Mr Sol, thanks for your input!

Ok. I asked because this is somewhat of a micromanagement issue, but in a niche game like this I don't think people will mind the extra MM.

Re crew XP, in order to take advantage of the existing code, a ship would only be upgraded to its direct upgrade - that is, in order to upgrade a cruiser I to a cruiser III you'd have to first upgrade to cruiser II and then to III. That would make it have 25% the original XP (as opposed to 33% in your list).

Again, thanks! I'll try to make this a priority.
I've fixed shield regen in combat, and was going to tackle garrisons and the system assault sitrep next, but I might switch focus to this :D

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Mr Sol
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Re: Upgrade Ships

Post by Mr Sol » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:22 pm

Hellows.

Yes, I knew the progression was wrong anyway but then it was an idea. Following a reduction of 50% each new upgrade means that at an upgrade from lvl x to lvl x+4 will make the crew XP be so much reduced its almost easier to make a new ship. So you need a good discount in the upgrade prices to make it worthwhile, else I would scrap the old one and make a new. Upgrading a ship needs to be cheaper and faster than making a new one from zero.

About the micromanagement you could include a ship command "upgrade" in the ship command list. It will open the next time a new upgrade version is ready. Once it is selected the ship will move automaticaly to the next drydock and begin the upgrading process if the dock is empty, else it will wait in a queue where it would be listed as marked for upgrading, so the player may remove it from the list if a shit happen and all the sudden he need that ship for an emergency. This way you diminish or avoid the micromanagement issue.

Hugs.

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Re: Upgrade Ships

Post by Iceman » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:22 am

Mr Sol wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:22 pm
Yes, I knew the progression was wrong anyway but then it was an idea.
It isn't wrong, it is a nice progression. And since we only need the first 4 multipliers (see below), a formula is really easy to implement.

An alternative with a fixed multiplier could be using 60% instead of 50%, which would produce rther similar values to those you suggested:
From lvl x to lvl x+1: 60% (50)
From lvl x to lvl X+2: 36% (33)
From lvl x to lvl x+3: 22% (25)
From lvl x to lvl x+4: 13% (20)

Following a reduction of 50% each new upgrade means that at an upgrade from lvl x to lvl x+4 will make the crew XP be so much reduced its almost easier to make a new ship. So you need a good discount in the upgrade prices to make it worthwhile, else I would scrap the old one and make a new. Upgrading a ship needs to be cheaper and faster than making a new one from zero.
It should be really really rare to have +4 upgrades, only cruisers have 5 "tiers" and only the Feds IIRC.
And if there is such an upgrade, the tech should be so different that a drastic reduction in XP might be justified - or not, since it only affects accuracy and damage control and evasion?

About the micromanagement you could include a ship command "upgrade" in the ship command list. It will open the next time a new upgrade version is ready. Once it is selected the ship will move automaticaly to the next drydock and begin the upgrading process if the dock is empty, else it will wait in a queue where it would be listed as marked for upgrading, so the player may remove it from the list if a shit happen and all the sudden he need that ship for an emergency. This way you diminish or avoid the micromanagement issue.
Sounds nice. It may present a few challenges though. I'll see what I can do.

Cheers!

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