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Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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Axis
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Post by Axis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:46 am

Could there be some technology like in Master of Orion II, which allows you to construct planets from asteroids and gas giants? I allways thought they gave the game the special extra spice to keep later game exciting. While it is a Star Trek game, you could justify these with tractor beams, means, you can allways collide or gather asteroids with tractor beams, in order to form a planet, or harvest excess gas from a gas giant with giant ramscoops. With this planet construction technology, huge planets from gas giants and large or medium for asteroids. After all they did find the dyson sphere in TNG, means, they could have researched the technology to construct planets in the Star Trek future.
Or perhaps even better, you could do a mod or leave an option for modders to come up with this technology, with working results.
Also, the Gaia-, or Super- or Hyper-, or Evolved-M or whatever you would call it planet type with better habitability than the basic M-class (like in MOO2),
a hyper advanced planet transformation techology to allow more colonists and food production would give the game an extra spice too.

And... last but not least, the terraforming of planets should change their appearance too, I mean, it is ridiculous, just think of terraforming Mars in real life, all letters written in red there turn green, but the planet never changes to anything, it remains a red lifeless desert (Riker did mention moon been terraformed, lake Armstrong visible from the Earth, in First Contact for example).
I thought if there could be more than one image or picture files of a planet divided into different classes, like volcanic appearance, desert appearance, jungle, terran etc. the same picture with different or slightly different colors, the lava lakes turn into blue or turquoise oceans when terraformed for example.
The terraforming process could be for example done to from volcanic to desert, from arctic to ocean, from desert to terran etc. what I mean, is the proximity to the main star, if close to the star, there could always be deserts terraformed from volcanic or demonic worlds, jungles also near the main star, oceans close or at distance from the star, and terrans always at the center.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:11 am

I wonder if we could have something like the UE for Supremacy too, for modding purposes, for modifying the GUI for example?
And hexes instead of squares, they'd bring more strategy in the game.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:02 pm

Hi Axis, thanks for your feedback!
I'll try to reply to all of your points the best I can.
Axis wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:46 am
Could there be some technology like in Master of Orion II, which allows you to construct planets from asteroids and gas giants? I allways thought they gave the game the special extra spice to keep later game exciting.
Well, late game you get the Moon Habitation building that increases the system's pop capacity according to the number and size of moons in each planet.
Also notice that Asteroids allow you to get +Duranium buildings, and Gas Giants +Deuterium. Changing them to habitable types would make those buildings all but irrelevant. And star systems would become somewhat one-dimensional (made worse by terraforming actually transforming planet types).
Which planet type would you suggest would be created from Asteroids and Gas Giants? Say it was Barren - would this type be more useful?

While it is a Star Trek game, you could justify these with tractor beams, means, you can allways collide or gather asteroids with tractor beams, in order to form a planet, or harvest excess gas from a gas giant with giant ramscoops.
There is a fleet order, which at the moment is deactivated IIRC, that allows starships to collect deuterium from Gas Giants. I was thinking of limiting this order to Construction Ships.

Or perhaps even better, you could do a mod or leave an option for modders to come up with this technology, with working results.
Not sure what exactly you're proposing. Creating new techs is easy. But they "unlock" stuff - buildings, ships, stations, etc. Not sure if you want the tech to transform all Asteroids in your systems automagically to planets, or to unlock a ship or something that transforms Asteroids to planets?
I can create a random event that changes the Asteroids in a (random?) system to a planet, as a result of some experiment or something - if someone writes the whole description.
Or I can add a +Population bonus so that when reaching a certain tech level, it unlocks that building that adds X pop to a system with Asteroids (but doesn't change them to a planet) - pretty much the same as Moon Habitation mentioned above.

Also, the Gaia-, or Super- or Hyper-, or Evolved-M or whatever you would call it planet type with better habitability than the basic M-class (like in MOO2),
a hyper advanced planet transformation techology to allow more colonists and food production would give the game an extra spice too.
*One* Gaia type planet is in my todo list :wink: Hmm, defended, obviously. :twisted:
More colonists, see above. More food production, hmm, at high levels you alredy don't need too many food PFs... And there's the +Food and +%Food buildings. In very special systems, sure! Like Gaia hehe. For regular systems, it would be kind of detracting IMO.

And... last but not least, the terraforming of planets should change their appearance too, I mean, it is ridiculous, just think of terraforming Mars in real life, all letters written in red there turn green, but the planet never changes to anything, it remains a red lifeless desert (Riker did mention moon been terraformed, lake Armstrong visible from the Earth, in First Contact for example).
I thought if there could be more than one image or picture files of a planet divided into different classes, like volcanic appearance, desert appearance, jungle, terran etc. the same picture with different or slightly different colors, the lava lakes turn into blue or turquoise oceans when terraformed for example.
The terraforming process could be for example done to from volcanic to desert, from arctic to ocean, from desert to terran etc. what I mean, is the proximity to the main star, if close to the star, there could always be deserts terraformed from volcanic or demonic worlds, jungles also near the main star, oceans close or at distance from the star, and terrans always at the center.
Originally, the design was like you mentioned. But being able to terraform all planets to M-class was found to be detracting - all systems would at some point be collections of M-class planets. Then it was suggested that each planet should only be able to "upgrade" one level, like you mentioned. Even so, the lower planet types would become useless.
Also notice that those lower planet types have advantages precisely to make them appealing - usually +Energy buildings. If you change their types, you should lose those buildings.

I'm trying to change the appearance of some planets that are affected by some event, namely Asteroid Impacts and Comet Strikes. I haven't yet managed to get around the way it is coded, though. Maybe I'll have another go at it soon.

I'm not sure how one can turn lava lakes to turquoise oceans though :wink:

I have plans fot the Demon planets BTW :cool:

Not sure if you noticed, but system generation already takes into account planet position to select planet type. With some randomization, of course.

I wonder if we could have something like the UE for Supremacy too, for modding purposes, for modifying the GUI for example?
There were plans for an editor, yes. Not for modding the UI though, that's pretty much hardcoded - the images can be changed obviously. The editor was never completed, unfortunately.
Would you like to work on the game's UI? We sure could use the help. We still need Game Context Menus (right-click menu) for some of the civs, for example. If you're interested, let us know please.

And hexes instead of squares, they'd bring more strategy in the game.
Oh, hexes would be cool. But that'd be a lot of work. And there's a ton still to do!


Again, thanks for you feedback, and keep it coming. It really is appreciated!

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:01 am

Hi Iceman, thanks for your answers!
Here's a little extra ideas on those I mentioned before.
Hi Axis, thanks for your feedback!
I'll try to reply to all of your points the best I can.
Could there be some technology like in Master of Orion II, which allows you to construct planets from asteroids and gas giants? I allways thought they gave the game the special extra spice to keep later game exciting.
Well, late game you get the Moon Habitation building that increases the system's pop capacity according to the number and size of moons in each planet.
Also notice that Asteroids allow you to get +Duranium buildings, and Gas Giants +Deuterium. Changing them to habitable types would make those buildings all but irrelevant. And star systems would become somewhat one-dimensional (made worse by terraforming actually transforming planet types).
Which planet type would you suggest would be created from Asteroids and Gas Giants? Say it was Barren - would this type be more useful?
Barren would be my choice.
I thought about a different kind of approach to these duranium & deuterium resources, I mean, if the anomalies in the main map could be the
sources for these resources, you could use construction ships in order to build a mining outpost, upgrade it to base too of course.
Deuterium would naturally be collected from nebulae, duranium, maybe from x-ray pulsars and neutronium from neutron stars.
Then you could transform asteroids and gas giants to habitable planets.
Also, by doing this, the anomalies would become more useful than just backdrops in the game.
Or perhaps even better, you could do a mod or leave an option for modders to come up with this technology, with working results.
Not sure what exactly you're proposing. Creating new techs is easy. But they "unlock" stuff - buildings, ships, stations, etc. Not sure if you want the tech to transform all Asteroids in your systems automagically to planets, or to unlock a ship or something that transforms Asteroids to planets?
I can create a random event that changes the Asteroids in a (random?) system to a planet, as a result of some experiment or something - if someone writes the whole description.
Or I can add a +Population bonus so that when reaching a certain tech level, it unlocks that building that adds X pop to a system with Asteroids (but doesn't change them to a planet) - pretty much the same as Moon Habitation mentioned above.
It would be quite similar like in MOO2, just build a planet transformation structure in your colony screen, and when completed, you could pick either asteroids or gas giant
as the target for planet construction (one per build).

A random event idea sounds good, I think it could be a lucky mining accident, in which the asteroids began to clump together eventually forming a planet.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:52 am

Could there be toxic, radiated, swamp and even pampan or savannan-type (hay and/or savannah-vegetation, low vegetation, bushes) planets in the game?
And, if the terraforming process does not change the type of the planet, could it change it's appearance a little, like I mentioned before, there would be more than one image file of a planet, a non-terraformed image (harsher appearance) and a terraformed image (more habitable-looking;) ).

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:52 pm

I thought about a different kind of approach to these duranium & deuterium resources, I mean, if the anomalies in the main map could be the
sources for these resources, you could use construction ships in order to build a mining outpost, upgrade it to base too of course.
Deuterium would naturally be collected from nebulae, duranium, maybe from x-ray pulsars and neutronium from neutron stars.
Then you could transform asteroids and gas giants to habitable planets.
Also, by doing this, the anomalies would become more useful than just backdrops in the game.
Mining stations have crossed my mind in the past too, and they could actually be cool. That would mean more art assets, creating them in the database, designing and adding the logic, and more importantly, teaching the AI how to use them. I'm not shooting the idea down, just thinking out loud!
Notice however that this would only make 3 of the anomalies have this objective, which would be kind of odd. Also notice that the anomalies are not just backdrops in the game, you can Survey them with Science ships or build Science Stations on them to gain research points - each one produces RPs in a different research field! Also, they have other effects, like disrupting scanners, slowing down ships, disabling shields and cloak, some actually dealing damage to fleets!

It would be quite similar like in MOO2, just build a planet transformation structure in your colony screen, and when completed, you could pick either asteroids or gas giant
as the target for planet construction (one per build).
Yeah, we talked about "special projects" back in the day, that you would build in the system - namely terraforming. There would be no actual structure built, as after the transformation it would serve no purpose.

A random event idea sounds good, I think it could be a lucky mining accident, in which the asteroids began to clump together eventually forming a planet.
Sure. Now, if someone writes a good description, I can start thinking about it :wink:

Could there be toxic, radiated, swamp and even pampan or savannan-type (hay and/or savannah-vegetation, low vegetation, bushes) planets in the game?
Ooohh, that was my dream a loong time ago. Huge fan of MoO2 too! Best game ever!
I actually "designed" an environmental wheel around them too, with Arid before Desert, Swamp after Oceanic, Tundra before Arctic, etc...
That would be awesome. We would need a bunch of art assets though.

And, if the terraforming process does not change the type of the planet, could it change it's appearance a little, like I mentioned before, there would be more than one image file of a planet, a non-terraformed image (harsher appearance) and a terraformed image (more habitable-looking;) ).
Without looking at the code, I guess it would be possible and probably not too complicated. Again, we would need a bunch of art assets.


Just to be clear, these are not NOs, if someone delivers the texts, art assets, whatever is necessary, I'll (try to) make it happen .

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:11 am

Thanks Iceman!
Glad to read there is room for extra ideas.

BTW, while at it ;), black holes could produce quantum filaments or smaller singularities, which could be harvested for further purposes when the necessary
science has been invented.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:00 am

About the art... here's an amateur Gaia-version of the Earth (I can do simple modifications to the images).
Terra.png
Terra.png
Terra.png (248.17 KiB) Viewed 176 times
Desert01.png
Desert01.png
Desert01.png (214.26 KiB) Viewed 172 times
Desert01T.png
Desert01 unterraformed
Desert01T.png (233.47 KiB) Viewed 172 times
Here's two desert images, the first one is the original Supremacy-file, the second one is modified by me.
I suggest, that this modified (more orange) is used as the unterraformed planet image, and the first one (yellower and greener) is used as a terraformed planet image.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:29 am

Desert02.png
Desert02.png
Desert02.png (272.13 KiB) Viewed 169 times
Desert02T.png
Desert02 unterrformed
Desert02T.png (270.95 KiB) Viewed 169 times
Here's two more.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:30 am

Desert03.png
Desert03
Desert03.png (203.31 KiB) Viewed 169 times
Desert03T.png
Desert03 unterraformed
Desert03T.png (188.65 KiB) Viewed 169 times
And here's the last of the deserts.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:53 am

Arctic00.png
Arctic00.png (231.82 KiB) Viewed 165 times
Arctic01.png
Arctic01.png (118.23 KiB) Viewed 165 times
Arctic02.png
Arctic02.png (218.12 KiB) Viewed 160 times
First three terraformed arctic planets.
Last edited by Axis on Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:54 am

Arctic03.png
Arctic03.png (97.9 KiB) Viewed 159 times
Barren00T.png
Barren00T.png (164.89 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Barren01T.png
Barren01T.png (161.3 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Last terraformed arctic and two terraformed barren planet images.
Last edited by Axis on Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:55 am

Barren02T.png
Barren02T.png (181.73 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Barren03T.png
Barren03T.png (153.09 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Jungle01T.png
Jungle01T.png (239.68 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Last two terraformed barren and a terraformed jungle.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:57 am

Jungle02T.png
Jungle02T.png (301.21 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Jungle03T.png
Jungle03T.png (254.24 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Oceanic01.png
Oceanic01.png (187.18 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Last two terraformed jungles and a terraformed ocean.

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Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Axis » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:58 am

Oceanic02.png
Oceanic02.png (161.8 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Oceanic03.png
Oceanic03.png (163.18 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Volcanic00T.png
Volcanic00T.png (238.54 KiB) Viewed 164 times
Last two terraformed oceans and a terraformed volcanic planet image.

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