[Balance] Research speed

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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:01 pm

Intersting - that Pangaian Ship. Disappeared now reloading that save game. ?!?
IIRC I had build a construction OR colony ship on that system in that turn - but not 100% sure.

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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:54 pm

Update - Reached turn 96
14Sep Version - patched to 15Sep Version on Turn 16.
Settings: Klingon Empire, Huge, Irregular, Medium, Medium, Early, Some, Canon, Slow, Default, No, No

* Marked Researched by Surveyors ONLY.

Turn 18 - Computers 2
Turn 25 - Biotech 2
Turn 30 - Propulsion 2
Turn 35 - Construction 2
Turn 40 - Energy 2
Turn 45 - Weapons 2
Turn 54 - Construction 3
Turn 59 - Energy 3 *
Turn 59 - Biotech 3
Turn 64 - Computers 3
Turn 69 - Weapons 3
Turn 73 - Propulsion 3 *
Turn 79 - Construction 4
Turn 84 - Energy 4 *
Turn 89 - Propulsion 4 *
Turn 92 - Biotech 4
Turn 98 - Computers 4
Turn 104 - Weapons 4

So it took just 104 Turn to reach completely TL4...thats really fast for a "Slow research" game IMO. And I did not even bother "focusing" on research a lot.

I think the start TL2 cost is ok @Slow - but the increase function should be steeper....or need to scale additionally with galaxy size
(like factor x2 as it is now on small, 2.5 on medium, 3 on large, 4 on huge ?)
Unfortunately just a few minutes time today...

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:52 am

Can you check if the Bilanaians are in the game, please?
An index related issue probably.

I'm curious to see TL5. That one wasn't changed, so it might be somewhat low.

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:00 pm

I'll keep playing this version for now and we'll see where it gets. The Bilnaians disappeared as I posted above. Cant Tell if they are still there etc.

What was strange is that I could ORDER the ship around. However it seemingly had no effect (as it disappeared probably in the next turn)
Btw. Special Events and Random Events were disabled IIRC.

attached are the latest 3 savegames from this game. Btw. so far I had not a single crash.
The bilnaians appeared around turn 96 (I think this save game was done the turn the ship was here - when resuming from this savegame though they had disappeareed
Attachments
Klingon Empire 2 - 64.zip
(566.98 KiB) Downloaded 26 times
Klingon Empire 2 - 96.zip
(608.8 KiB) Downloaded 22 times
Klingon Empire 2 - 104.zip
(607.53 KiB) Downloaded 27 times

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:10 pm

Iscaran wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:00 pm
The Bilnaians disappeared as I posted above. Cant Tell if they are still there etc.
I meant if they are one of the minor races in the game. I just checked and yes, they were spawned in your game (though you haven't met them yet).
I loaded turn 96 and there are no ships orbiting Qo'noS, the shipyard is not building anything and no ship was completed this turn.
This is probably another indexing issue...
attached are the latest 3 savegames from this game. Btw. so far I had not a single crash.
Just to be sure, you are using the 15sep patch, correct? If so, then it is the AI building OBs that is the cause of the crash.

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:22 pm

Just to be sure, you are using the 15sep patch, correct? If so, then it is the AI building OBs that is the cause of the crash.
Yes 15sep patch (patched in turn 16 did not start new game but continued the savegame). I think you are mistaking me for geordie or someone else. In this game I had no crash from turn 1 to now. Just wanted to say that because last time I was playing some August version I had those 2 crashes.
I loaded turn 96 and there are no ships orbiting Qo'noS, the shipyard is not building anything and no ship was completed this turn.
This is probably another indexing issue...
The ship was definitely there - maybe it was in Turn 95 or it was later, If the shipyard in 96 is not building anything then it was building something one turn back. The Bilnaian ship for sure has disappeared for me, too, no matter which of the saves I load though.

Btw. whats the difference between a shipyard and a military shipyard ? I can apparently build both on Angosia right now ? Does one replace the other or do I have to build both ?
Upgrading ships is currently not yet possible right ?

Lastly, I observe that the game becomes increasingly "laggy" with each turn...is this a known Win10 issue ? Sometimes I cant even scroll anymore because the interface became so unresponding :-/


Update - Reached turn 117
14Sep Version - patched to 15Sep Version on Turn 16.
Settings: Klingon Empire, Huge, Irregular, Medium, Medium, Early, Some, Canon, Slow, Default, No, No

* Marked Researched by Surveyors ONLY.

Turn 18 - Computers 2
Turn 25 - Biotech 2
Turn 30 - Propulsion 2
Turn 35 - Construction 2
Turn 40 - Energy 2
Turn 45 - Weapons 2
Turn 54 - Construction 3
Turn 59 - Energy 3 *
Turn 59 - Biotech 3
Turn 64 - Computers 3
Turn 69 - Weapons 3
Turn 73 - Propulsion 3 *
Turn 79 - Construction 4
Turn 84 - Energy 4 *
Turn 89 - Propulsion 4 *
Turn 92 - Biotech 4
Turn 98 - Computers 4
Turn 104 - Weapons 4
Turn 114 - Weapons 5

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:07 pm

Yes 15sep patch (patched in turn 16 did not start new game but continued the savegame). I think you are mistaking me for geordie or someone else.
Not really. I was just being extra careful, sorry. I know what your settings are. But I wanted to be really sure about the crash status.
In this game I had no crash from turn 1 to now.
So the origin of the crash is the AI building OBs. That's what I needed to know, thanks.
Btw. whats the difference between a shipyard and a military shipyard ? I can apparently build both on Angosia right now ? Does one replace the other or do I have to build both ?
The Military Shipyard is the Klingons' shipyard. The Shipyard is the minor races' shipyard. They have identical stats (but can be modded separately).
That's something I need to address. For OBs too. I'll probably only allow minor race systems, when part of an empire, to build the minor race specific SY and OBs. It gets kind of confusing otherwise.
I also noticed that you could build (Klingon) Troop Transports in Angosia, which you shouldn't... I'll have to look into it.
Upgrading ships is currently not yet possible right ?
Right.
Lastly, I observe that the game becomes increasingly "laggy" with each turn...is this a known Win10 issue ? Sometimes I cant even scroll anymore because the interface became so unresponding :-/
Not really sure...


BTW, I have increased TLs 5~8.

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:36 pm

Update - Reached turn 126
14Sep Version - patched to 15Sep Version on Turn 16.
Settings: Klingon Empire, Huge, Irregular, Medium, Medium, Early, Some, Canon, Slow, Default, No, No

* Marked Researched by Surveyors ONLY.

Turn 18 - Computers 2
Turn 25 - Biotech 2
Turn 30 - Propulsion 2
Turn 35 - Construction 2
Turn 40 - Energy 2
Turn 45 - Weapons 2
Turn 54 - Construction 3
Turn 59 - Energy 3 *
Turn 59 - Biotech 3
Turn 64 - Computers 3
Turn 69 - Weapons 3
Turn 73 - Propulsion 3 *
Turn 79 - Construction 4
Turn 84 - Energy 4 *
Turn 89 - Propulsion 4 *
Turn 92 - Biotech 4
Turn 98 - Computers 4
Turn 104 - Weapons 4
Turn 114 - Weapons 5
Update
Turn 118 - Energy 5
Turn 126 - Construction 5

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Iscaran
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:48 pm

Apart from posting my Research speed Update I have to report on more issues I encountered:
1.) The games just crashed
2.) But before it ultimately crashed the game has again become very very "laggy" - and the scrolling in the planetary build menu was broken.
I could scroll down (heavily lagged) but it was impossible to scroll back up.

Error log is attached - but strangely there seems to be no autosave ?!?

Update - Reached turn 134
14Sep Version - patched to 15Sep Version on Turn 16.
Settings: Klingon Empire, Huge, Irregular, Medium, Medium, Early, Some, Canon, Slow, Default, No, No

* Marked Researched by Surveyors ONLY.

Turn 18 - Computers 2
Turn 25 - Biotech 2
Turn 30 - Propulsion 2
Turn 35 - Construction 2
Turn 40 - Energy 2
Turn 45 - Weapons 2
Turn 54 - Construction 3
Turn 59 - Energy 3 *
Turn 59 - Biotech 3
Turn 64 - Computers 3
Turn 69 - Weapons 3
Turn 73 - Propulsion 3 *
Turn 79 - Construction 4
Turn 84 - Energy 4 *
Turn 89 - Propulsion 4 *
Turn 92 - Biotech 4
Turn 98 - Computers 4
Turn 104 - Weapons 4
Turn 114 - Weapons 5
Update
Turn 118 - Energy 5
Turn 126 - Construction 5
Turn 133 - Computers 5
Update
Turn 136 - Propulsion 5 *
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Iceman
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:11 pm

BTW, if you want to try the random RPs from survey LMK ;)

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:54 am

Here's a brief "history" of the changes so far.
Basically moving "up" one level.
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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:39 pm

Sorry for not posting any progress the last 2 weeks. I got surprisingly caught by other activities and also have a new project abroad (respectively far away). So I will re-start playing maybe in 2-4 weeks. Probably I will then restart a new game then - depending on save game compatibility with the new release versions until then.

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:03 pm

Thought I'd lost you, heh.
Savegames are not compatible with the new patch(es), due to some work done on Intel. If you want to continue your game, don't install the 10oct patch or later.
If you don't mind starting a new one, by that time there might be a new release.

Good luck with your project!

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iscaran » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:04 pm

Hi Iceman,

so I got back now. Restarted with a new game set on the newest dec6th Version.

Settings: Klingon Empire, Huge, Irregular, Medium, Medium, Early, Some, Canon, Slow, Default, No, No

I monitored appearance of Personell and research speed.

Reached Turn 75 by now.

Recruitment
Turn 11: Antaak
Turn 20: Vorok
Turn 28: Buka'H
Turn 39: Goroth
Turn 51: Klaang
Turn 60: Korok
Turn 72: K'Vagh

It appears to me that the appearance rate might be a little high ? (~10 Turns per Agent ?)
But not sure - as at the moment there seems to be not too much use for the Agents, except for Diplomatic Envoy missions ?

As for the research speed. I think with the current pace it is now already quite OK. Though I got completely through Tec 2 until Turn 50.
I*ll see how it progresses further in the higher tech levels. For my taste I will probably still use a modifier of 1/2 for SLOW on Huge maps.

Research:
Turn 15: Biotech 2
Turn 25: Computers 2
Turn 35: Propulsion 2
Turn 44: Weapons 2
Turn 49: Construction 2
Turn 54: Energy 2
Turn 64: Construction 3
Turn 71: Propulsion 3
Turn 73: Biotech 3

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Re: [Balance] Research speed

Post by Iceman » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:55 pm

Hi Iscaran
Glad to see you back.
It appears to me that the appearance rate might be a little high ? (~10 Turns per Agent ?)
But not sure - as at the moment there seems to be not too much use for the Agents, except for Diplomatic Envoy missions ?
By too high you mean there should be more time between agents, or less?
Yep, right now all you can actively do with them is assign them as Envoys to other civs. The best Operative that is idle in your homesystem will also act as your counter-intel chief of operations, protecting your empire from random intel attacks - which are currently disabled because they're too disruptive and the AI can't handle intel yet.
As for the research speed. I think with the current pace it is now already quite OK. Though I got completely through Tec 2 until Turn 50.
I*ll see how it progresses further in the higher tech levels. For my taste I will probably still use a modifier of 1/2 for SLOW on Huge maps.
Thanks for the feedback. Let's see how the rest of the TLs go, and if any adjustments are needed.
You're not assigning pop to Intel, right? There are a couple of random events (the terrorism ones) that were added to force you to invest in intel production (which reduces their likelihood of happening). That should slow down research a bit.

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