New Mirror Universe mod

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Iceman » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:00 pm

Only gave it a cursory glance but I've spotted a few inconsistencies and oddities. Are you interested in that kind of feedback? If so, post here or send by PM?

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Iceman » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:30 pm

Sorry, no time to make this pretty and all... time for bed. Hope it's understandable.


Shared Structures

Communications Grid
- can be built by N (minors)? (Non-Native Member System)
- 500 *percent* Bribe Resistance?
Mining Prison
- 2 versions, one for Klingons and one for the rest, but exactly the same stats?
- Development? Or Defense like the Dilithium Refinery and the Singularity Plant?
Tactical Training Center
- Development? Or Defense?
- Cardassians and Ferengi, but Cardassians already have Central Command so they get 3 training facilities?
Protectorate Headquarters
- can be built by N? (Subjugated System)
Phoenix Facility
- Development? Or Defense?
Advanced Replicators
- also available for N? They have Basic Replicators already
Supply Line Coordination Center
- Research? Or Defense?
Ship Integration Facility
- Research? Or Defense?
- the lack of +1 Morale I assume is intended?
(I also assume the differences to vanilla in some buildings are also intended)


Cardassians

Type 3 Shadow Team
- according to the "formula", the output should be 52, not 50


Terran

Type 1 Databank
- according to the "formula", the output should be 6, not 10
Type 1 University
- according to the "formula", the output should be 12, not 10


Ferengi

Machining Guild
- the "formula" seems to be incorrect in the transition from Class 1 to Class 2


Romulans

Fabricators
- the "formula" seems to be incorrect in the transition from Mark I to Mark II


Minor Races

Acamarian Clan Hall
- Defense? Or Development?
Breen Thermal Research center
- Energy? Or Research?
Anticans Energy Probe
- Energy? Or Research?
Betazoid Paradise
- Defense? Or Development?
- +1 Morale EW plus +1 Morale local?
Gorn Trade network
- Defense? Or Development?
Dilithium moons of Edo
- Energy? Or Development?
Ktarian casino and resort
- +1 Morale EW plus +1 Morale local?
Maquis Raiding team
- Development? Or Defense?
Orion Syndicate
- Research? Or Defense?
Nausicaans
- both Ground Combat? (one with +1 Morale)
Pakleds Dilithium Mine
- Energy? Or Defense?
Sheliak Temporal Defense Grid
- Defense? Or Research?
- 65 energy for 20% (total) Research, vs 200 energy for 20% Biotech (Bioengineering Center)?!
Tholian Assembly
- Development? Or Defense?
Tamarians Darmok weapon probing center
- Food? Or Research?
Xindi Council
- Defense? Or Development?
- +1 Morale EW plus +1 Morale local?

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by thunderchero » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:43 pm

Hi Iceman,

thanks for input.

"can be built by N (minors)?" this in needed race on system built by a controlling major. also those last columns I added and my not be that accurate or up to date.

I also noticed those duplicate structures this is very rough draft trying to just fill up empty slots

that said yes I need to work on categories. :smile:

example;
Communications Grid
- can be built by N (minors)? (Non-Native Member System)
- 500 *percent* Bribe Resistance?
this is an original structure and values lol
same thing for main structures values I just used type 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 upgrades so if pattern is off it was off in vanilla I guess. but would need to double check.

Thanks again for list I will definitively use it

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Iceman » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:24 am

The vanilla Comms Grid is 500 *percent* (notice emphasis) BR? I don't think so, that was my point.
You're welcome! :up:

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:04 pm

The Communication Grid never worked as intended in original BotF. He plans on using the "Bribe Resistance Fix (advanced)" viewtopic.php?f=189&t=12#p32777

---

Here come my suggestions resp. offers for the multi-installer /updating mods project:

- I can look into completing extended system bonuses and array (we need icons on top of sun animation for Asteroid, Asteroid belt dilithium, Dilithium) and provide patcher ready codes (this enables some of your suggestions on modifying random events) plus gives some inspirations for new special buildings :wink:

- I can also look into lowering the AI colonize, Tform & buildbase thresholds so that the AI will finally colonize more systems (might require increasing the stellar objects density/amount, not only for irregular)
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Iceman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:47 pm

I know, or I suspected such. But again, 500%...
From your link:
2.) In edifice.bst change the output value of the communication grid from 500 to (for example) 30% i.e. effect of gifts is reduced to 70%. Needless to say the max value is 100% bribe resistance.
(highlight mine)

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:24 pm

Yes, it reads funny (of course, as stated, the building output values are not set yet). It's just about the scheme at this point i.e. suggestions for new special buildings.

Btw the real fun part starts with every iteration of the question about the gift effect divisor:
The multiplier is 0.0004 due to the skipped default effect divisor (25 see above) i.e. *0.04 *0.01(%). Thus e.g. to get a divisor of 50 the float value must be 0.0002.

(...) note that the old divisor at position 407B75 has been removed due to code changes, but doubling the new multilpier does the same effect as halving the old divisor would do (and vice versa) since / X = * 1/X
You don't mind if I send the inquirers over to you? (I'm really running out of ideas how to explain this one...) :razz:
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Iceman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:35 pm

Actually, reading your posts (not yours specifically, but all coders here in general) makes my head hurt. :razz:
Not that I don't understand Assembly (I actually taught a bit of that many many years ago), but I never really kept up with code changes to BotF, and so I get lost with all the references to past changes and fixes and whatnot.
And I understand perfectly well how someone that doesn't know Assembly might not understand what you guys post because most of the time it *is* cryptic. :wink: Even the comments in the code are not at all clear.
And worst of all, those threads could use some cleaning up, as sometimes it seems there is contradictory or outdated information. But obviously, that would require time, lots of it, and I'm sure no one wants to do that. :wink:

The gift effect divisor, hmm, can't recall how I implemented that in Supremacy, but I probably quit trying to understand it too. :cool: J/k, I think Supremacy tries to mimic it for the most part. But it's not easy to digest all the numbers.
Your first sentence needs context, but the second one is pretty obvious. For someone that has a good grasp on maths of course.
The difficulty might be you guys using a language appropriate to people familiar with years of development (of this game) and assuming readers will know exactly what you're talking about? The developers obviously have all that info stored in their brains, but the casual reader/coder probably won't. I know I've thought more than once "What the **** is he talking about?!" :twisted: And having to read wads of text, using the Universal Translator, to have a clue.

Re Bribe Resistance bonus, IIRC in Supremacy what I did was subtract that value (default 500 in the Comms Grid) from the offered amount, and use the result to calculate the effect.


BTW, a question that came up while checking the list. The "Income on Trade Route" bonus (Ferengi Tower of Commerce) is listed as EW; I'll need to check in Supremacy, but I don't think we have it as being EW. Can't recall, is it EW in vanilla (affects all TRs in the empire), or local (just the ones originating/ending in that system)?

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by thunderchero » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:50 pm

Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:04 pm
- I can look into completing extended system bonuses and array (we need icons on top of sun animation for Asteroid, Asteroid belt dilithium, Dilithium) and provide patcher ready codes (this enables some of your suggestions on modifying random events) plus gives some inspirations for new special buildings :wink:

- I can also look into lowering the AI colonize, Tform & buildbase thresholds so that the AI will finally colonize more systems (might require increasing the stellar objects density/amount, not only for irregular)
sent you a PM with some Asteroid, Asteroid belt dilithium tga's

here is what new icons look like in game
Asteroid belt
ast.jpg
ast.jpg (39.91 KiB) Viewed 263 times
Asteroid belt dilithium
ad.jpg
ad.jpg (38.8 KiB) Viewed 262 times
as for lowereing the AI thresholds, I am for anything that improve AI :grin:
anyway you forget Mirror Universe mod only has irregular galaxies :grin:

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:12 pm

@ Iceman

Thanks for double checking this stuff. The coding notes certainly are cryptic (even to me) but this one is just about maths i.e. divsision vs. floating point multiplication, with the little-endian format of the 2+ byte values being an all-time editing obstacle in BotF.

A long time ago I spent some hours cleaning up topics by editing posts and deleting tons of outdated and/or spam posts. You don't even want to imagine how many threads looked before that...

"Income on Trade Route" bonus is empire wide in BotF (looking at Gowron's posts).


@ thunderchero

I'll see what I can do, but can't give an official assurance at this time (BotF code sucks just too much to get things done quickly).

Debris graphic works, but will it be intuitively recognisable as asteroid and/or as asteroid belt?

And do you want asteroid belt dilithium being simply the coexistence of the asteroid and dilithium (i.e. only 3 graphics -> asteroid, dil. or both) or a full bitmask feature (7 graphics required)?
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Iceman » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:57 pm

Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:12 pm
@ Iceman

Thanks for double checking this stuff. The coding notes certainly are cryptic (even to me) but this one is just about maths i.e. divsision vs. floating point multiplication, with the little-endian format of the 2+ byte values being an all-time editing obstacle in BotF.
Well, I deal with that kind of difficulty on a daily basis, teaching electronics. :wink: And I'm usually not very successful too. :neutral:
A long time ago I spent some hours cleaning up topics by editing posts and deleting tons of outdated and/or spam posts. You don't even want to imagine how many threads looked before that...
Yes, I did notice that there was an attempt at collecting information in the relevant places. I can only imagine how much work it was. My guess is you probably wanted to delete most of it and only leave the really important stuff. I know I wish it would have been done. :wink:
"Income on Trade Route" bonus is empire wide in BotF (looking at Gowron's posts).
Thx. I'll do that in Supremacy too.

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Re: New Mirror Universe mod

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:29 pm

thunderchero wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:50 pm
as for lowereing the AI thresholds, I am for anything that improve AI :grin:
I uploaded two untested AI patches for the issues: :wink:

https://workupload.com/file/jXqaENCq [EDIT: link updated with corrected patches]


Iceman wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:57 pm
Well, I deal with that kind of difficulty on a daily basis, teaching electronics. :wink: And I'm usually not very successful too. :neutral:
Now I see the didactic flaw. I explained the multiplicative inverse, since I didn't use a calculator. The Pakled-proof instruction is simply: Divide 0.01 by your new wanted divisor and enter the result at the specified address in little-endian format. :idea:
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.

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