Supremacy new release

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

Moderators: thunderchero, Iceman

Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

geordie wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:03 am But a terraforming of member minor planet should help as well and I am sure that that does not work.
Well, it does now :wink: For member and subjugated minors.
Though for member minors one would assume you had already terraformed all their planets to make getting the membership treaty less expensive.


--

Something we're debating, and for which I'd like some feedback:

When a colony rebels (whether it's a member minor, a subjugated minor, or a subjugated colony from another empire), what do you guys think should happen?

- Before the current release, their state was set to be At War, but there was no formal DoW, and Regard was not affected
- For the release, the state of war was removed

Right now, in the internal build, Regard is affected, for both civs.
Now the question is, what else?

- That is, should war be declared formally by the civ that lost the colony :?:
- Should we only set them to be At War but without a formal DoW :?:
- Should the DoW depend on the Trait of the civ that lost the colony :?: (Like the Klingons would probably declare war, but the Feds wouldn’t)
- Should it also depend on which type of civ the native pop is - minor race vs empire? And if it was a member or subjugated colony?
User avatar
geordie
Lieutenant-Commander
Lieutenant-Commander
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

Hi Iceman,
Please have a look into the attached save.
SP Borg Huge Irregular 191.zip
(569.09 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
It's a 13Jan game and despite the game parameters are rather unusual, the territorial expansion of all races is really impresive, including extensive usage of wormholes. I would say they even are constructing too many colony ships.
A lot of meat for Borg :)
Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Hehe, thx for the save, it'll be very useful!
I've noticed a few things to tweak already.

With your experience playing that game, what would you change/tweak, and how?
Was it fun? What could make it better?
Any feedback you can provide is a great help.

Do you think the Borg should be able to colonize systems? Maybe only a couple?



the territorial expansion of all races is really impresive
Yea, and I used a toned down version of CaptScarff's code :wink:

including extensive usage of wormholes
erazortt's wormhole code is awesome. The AI will use multiple WHs in a chain to get where it needs, too.

I would say they even are constructing too many colony ships.
They shouldn't have more than 8 at a given time. Have you seen a specific situation where there were more than that?

Thanks, and keep those saves coming. They're REALLY helpful! :up:
Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

They shouldn't have more than 8 at a given time.
Well, this is not happening in your game... we'll need to check what's wrong.
With such a prolonged expansion, the AI is negleting building warships...



I have a couple more questions:

- should the -1 morale Buildings (Forced Labour Foundry and such) be destroyed when the system is subjugated?

- should the shipyard be destroyed when the system is subjugated?



Rebellions should be pretty much finalized. Now your own colonies may secede from your empire. :twisted:
Attachments
KlingonRebels.png
KlingonRebels.png (153.27 KiB) Viewed 454 times
User avatar
geordie
Lieutenant-Commander
Lieutenant-Commander
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

the AI is neglecting building warships...
That was my main remark to the AI current status
- should the -1 morale Buildings (Forced Labour Foundry and such) be destroyed when the system is subjugated?
That would be tricky. :wink: I would leave them for now to get the system management more challenging.
Definitely shipyards and +1 morale buildings should be destroyed. Leaving a shipyard is a huge advantage in empire expansion.
Do you think the Borg should be able to colonize systems? Maybe only a couple?
For me it would be too big advantage. The Borg is hard to be stopped without that. Of course I haven't experienced any AI improvements for Borg yet.
Was it fun? What could make it better?
The Borg perfection and unification means that there is a lot of grind in their system development, but probably that's inevitable. So only fun is in the expansion.
I suppose my last attempt to switch the Research Rate as Fast, the Tech Level as Supreme and the Starting Facilities as Best should be the standard ones for any Borg game as these ones concern the Borg opponents.
I also suppose the AI should force other empires to form a kind of alliance against the Borg including merging their fleets (or some parts of them).
And of course the AI should acquire new empire members among the minors, eventually.
There was one small problem: the Maturation Chambers disappear from the Build List after first click quite often (but not always), when of course more such buildings should be available, but it comes back next turn.
Ahh, and audio setting don't work - the Borg voices are too loud, at least comparing to other games.
Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

That was my main remark to the AI current status
This should be better when we include CaptScarff's improvements. They're not complete yet though.

That would be tricky. :wink: I would leave them for now to get the system management more challenging.
I added some code for the AI to deactivate them but it wasn't tested yet. With rebellions and such, when morale drops, they keep dragging your morale down.
At least the Federation AI should probably scrap these slavery related buildings? :mrgreen:

Definitely shipyards and +1 morale buildings should be destroyed. Leaving a shipyard is a huge advantage in empire expansion.
My thoughts exactly, about the SY. The unique buildings are always destroyed on subjugation.

For me it would be too big advantage. The Borg is hard to be stopped without that. Of course I haven't experienced any AI improvements for Borg yet.
That's my opinion too. We should probably leave Borg colonization for a mod.

The Borg perfection and unification means that there is a lot of grind in their system development, but probably that's inevitable. So only fun is in the expansion.
I suppose my last attempt to switch the Research Rate as Fast, the Tech Level as Supreme and the Starting Facilities as Best should be the standard ones for any Borg game as these ones concern the Borg opponents.
The Borg shouldn't really be a playable civ, but I guess everyone wants to play them at least once. :wink:
You are correct about the options. They shouldn't be played in maps below Large either.

I also suppose the AI should force other empires to form a kind of alliance against the Borg including merging their fleets (or some parts of them).
That's part of the original design of the game - an anti-Borg alliance.

And of course the AI should acquire new empire members among the minors, eventually.
That should be one of the next priorities, the AI actively using diplomacy.

There was one small problem: the Maturation Chambers disappear from the Build List after first click quite often (but not always), when of course more such buildings should be available, but it comes back next turn.
The Maturation Chambers is a 1 per 100 population building, so you can only build them when the colony meets the population criteria.

Ahh, and audio setting don't work - the Borg voices are too loud, at least comparing to other games.
Yea, the SoundFX volume control is not yet implemented. And unfortunately the6the hasn't been around for quite a while - we need more soundfx for the Borg and the Dominion.
I'll look into the volume levels of the Borg sfx.

Thanks for the feedback! :up:
Anything else you might remember, please post about it.
User avatar
geordie
Lieutenant-Commander
Lieutenant-Commander
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

The Maturation Chambers is a 1 per 100 population building, so you can only build them when the colony meets the population criteria.
I know that rule. I mean the Maturation Chambers disappear after first choice even if the system has bigger population and almost always for 2xx populations. It comes back next turn without any further issue.
Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Can't reproduce that in your savegame.
In a new game it seems to be working too.
User avatar
geordie
Lieutenant-Commander
Lieutenant-Commander
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

SP Borg Huge Irregular 220.zip
(596.73 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
In this save I got that 3 times in a row at Nadra system and no single one at Ledos system

BTW - In my previous game I got a terrorist penalty in a minor system just 6 turns after the membership
Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Can you please keep an eye on if when this happens, it's only in the last colony in the list? Not that there's any reason for that, I just don't see any valid reason for it to happen.

BTW - In my previous game I got a terrorist penalty in a minor system just 6 turns after the membership
What do you mean a terrorist penalty? You mean one of the terrorism events?
If so, then it must have been some malcontents with the membership :wink:
Do you think it shouldn't have happened? There was probably little to no security in the system?
User avatar
geordie
Lieutenant-Commander
Lieutenant-Commander
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

Sometimes there were more than one colony affected in the same turn. Anyway it's not a problem as it is available next turn.

We also talked about leaders, so it is a status after 150 turns:
Screenshot (12).jpg
Screenshot (12).jpg (469.08 KiB) Viewed 375 times
Do you think it shouldn't have happened? There was probably little to no security in the system?
Yes, a terrorism event, and it's not possible to build required security within 6 turns. I try to propose membership when there is a worshipful attitude, so it is not possible to lose it so fast. I suppose that a transitional period similar to new colonies is needed. Minors usually don't bother about security.
Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

We also talked about leaders, so it is a status after 150 turns:
Hmm, you should have recruited a few more...

Yes, a terrorism event, and it's not possible to build required security within 6 turns. I try to propose membership when there is a worshipful attitude, so it is not possible to lose it so fast. I suppose that a transitional period similar to new colonies is needed. Minors usually don't bother about security.
What do you mean by "lose it so fast", related to Attitude? What did you lose?
Unless you mean a few structures or some credits, but relating it to Attitude (which is totally unrelated to terrorism) kind of makes me read this like you lost the minor race altogether.
Can you clarify please?
Oh, and I understand your point about the transition period.
User avatar
geordie
Lieutenant-Commander
Lieutenant-Commander
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

I meant that the morale was Pleased and the attitude was Worshipful and both should not go down too quickly, in 6 turns. So the reason of the terrorism was only due to security level impossible to achieve and that's why I suggested the transition period.

Next leader appeared in turn 155, so generally the recruitment works.
Iceman
Rear-Admiral
Rear-Admiral
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:00 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by Iceman »

Terrorism is not related to either attitude or morale - it is a random event that has solely to do with security. Right now it might be rather frequent, but that's because Intelligence is not yet implemented, and it is an artificial way to force you to keep your Intel PFs manned.
Low morale can cause rebellions, which is a different beast.
Low regard can cause membership to be cancelled.

Next leader appeared in turn 155, so generally the recruitment works.
Yea, but something seems odd. There seems to be a gap between your 3rd and 4th recruitments.
User avatar
geordie
Lieutenant-Commander
Lieutenant-Commander
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 am

Re: Supremacy new release

Post by geordie »

OK. Simply I would like to know the rule. Recently I lost some funds (not too much) after such even having 150 security, 280 colonists and 295 max colony population. So is a discontentment a hidden parameter as the Morale was Fanatic?
Post Reply

Return to “Supremacy”