Stealth and Cloak
Moderator: thunderchero
Stealth and Cloak
I've tested the effects of these abilities. The results are a bit disappointing, since especially Stealth doesn't seem to have as much of an effect as some people thought.
Orbital Bombardment
Stealth and Cloak don't help against orbitals. They do exactly nothing, regardless of Stealth/Cloak level.
Scan Strength
A scan strength of +1 is enough to see Stealth ships on the F1 screen (i.e. Stealth does nothing in this case, regardless of Stealth level).
A scan strength of +30 or more is needed to see cloaked ships on the F1 screen, regardless of cloak level.
Orbital Bombardment
Stealth and Cloak don't help against orbitals. They do exactly nothing, regardless of Stealth/Cloak level.
Scan Strength
A scan strength of +1 is enough to see Stealth ships on the F1 screen (i.e. Stealth does nothing in this case, regardless of Stealth level).
A scan strength of +30 or more is needed to see cloaked ships on the F1 screen, regardless of cloak level.
That's truly a bit disappointing. Maybe just one more feature that wasn't really finalized before the game was rushed out.
But thanks for the testing effort, Gowron :-).
Cheers,
Siggi
But thanks for the testing effort, Gowron :-).
Cheers,
Siggi
...of course, this was also true at the Birth of the Federation...
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Re: Stealth and Cloak
Not yet, AFAIK.Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:Is the value location known ?Gowron wrote:A scan strength of +30 or more is needed to see cloaked ships on the F1 screen
And I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort to search it.
A discovery consists in seeing something everybody has seen and at the same time thinking something nobody has thought yet.
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F1-interface cloak checks - now uncloaked in trek.exe
0xD9729 (1E) -> icon on F1 map
asm - 4DA326 cmp dword ptr [edx+40h], 1Eh
0xE0A73 (1E) -> F1 map icons pop-up (task force counter)
asm - 4E166F cmp dword ptr [ebp+edx*4+40h], 1Eh
0xE953C (1E) -> F1 task forces column (below empire info)
asm - 4EA13A cmp ebx, 1Eh
4DC805 cmp ebx, 1Eh -> player GUI scan strength green
Different values are possible, i.e. increasing of the third value will veil number/type of ships in cloaked task forces.
An additional increasing of the second value will also veil number of cloaked task forces. Be careful in this case an uncloaked task force will "mask" any cloaked presence of the same owner.
I tested F1 interface only, but there appear to be another cloak checks, maybe regarding engage/intercept or AI related.
cloak approach (tactical combat - initial distance)
520286 fld ds: 584E0C // 0x182C0C (8 bytes)
default: 300.0
NOTE: multiplied by 1.5 (shared value)
Edit: My tests didn't show any influence of different Stealth/Cloak levels in tactical combat.
0xD9729 (1E) -> icon on F1 map
asm - 4DA326 cmp dword ptr [edx+40h], 1Eh
0xE0A73 (1E) -> F1 map icons pop-up (task force counter)
asm - 4E166F cmp dword ptr [ebp+edx*4+40h], 1Eh
0xE953C (1E) -> F1 task forces column (below empire info)
asm - 4EA13A cmp ebx, 1Eh
4DC805 cmp ebx, 1Eh -> player GUI scan strength green
Different values are possible, i.e. increasing of the third value will veil number/type of ships in cloaked task forces.
An additional increasing of the second value will also veil number of cloaked task forces. Be careful in this case an uncloaked task force will "mask" any cloaked presence of the same owner.
I tested F1 interface only, but there appear to be another cloak checks, maybe regarding engage/intercept or AI related.
cloak approach (tactical combat - initial distance)
520286 fld ds: 584E0C // 0x182C0C (8 bytes)
default: 300.0
NOTE: multiplied by 1.5 (shared value)
Edit: My tests didn't show any influence of different Stealth/Cloak levels in tactical combat.
Last edited by Spocks-cuddly-tribble on Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
- Spocks-cuddly-tribble
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Cloak checks & default fix for task forces
Some more scan strength checks for cloaked taskforces:Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:F1-interface cloak checks (...)Gowron wrote:A scan strength of +30 or more is needed to see cloaked ships on the F1 screen
I tested F1 interface only, but there appear to be another cloak checks, maybe regarding engage/intercept or AI related.
Code: Select all
42032A 837C85 40 1E CMP [EBP+EAX*4+40], 1E // AI map scan (for accept demand?)
476510 833C04 1E CMP [ESP+EAX], 1E // get cloaked ships for combat
Sub_4485D8 - SetTaskForceAbilities (e.g. speed/range, intercept yes/no)
Cloak check: (loops for all ships in task force)
Code: Select all
44866D call read_shiplist_sst
448672 test byte ptr [esp+0B0h], 4 // test shiplist.sst cloak entry
44867A jnz short loc_44868C // if 3rd bit set goto cloak OK
44867C mov dl, [ecx+40h] // load ability bitmask
44867F mov dword ptr [ecx+68h], 0 // decloak task force
448686 and dl, 7Fh // clear cloak command bit
448689 mov [ecx+40h], dl // remove cloak ability
Sub_449890 - PrepareTaskForceEntry (inter alia for new ships/monster, stolen ships, ships from acceded minors, separated ships after redeploy or after retreat)
Code: Select all
449912 mov dword ptr [ecx+68h], 0 // cloak default (off)
Cloak default fix for task forces: (see update below)
In trek.exe at 0x48D15 change 00 to -> 01 (cloak on)
This fixes a couple of issues in BotF:
- AI cloak behavior bug (for majors & minors - e.g. Yridian scout default)
- the handling of cloaked fleets becomes a lot easier (new ships auto cloak after leaving shipyard, also separated ships after redeploy/retreat, stolen ships, ships from acceded minors)
- enables cloak for monster (Warning - see: Monster Editing Info)
Last edited by Spocks-cuddly-tribble on Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
- Spocks-cuddly-tribble
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Cloak vs. Attacking a System -Bugfixes
Due to some issues wrt cloaking capable ships and the "attack system" menu option, I had a closer look at that code.
Unmodded, cloaked ships don't have the option to attack systems. If you de-cloak and wait a turn, the "attack system" option gets unlocked. Attacking at the same turn does still work via redeploy, though. And even worser, after ordering "attack system" you can re-cloak again.
But the one turn delay was never intended. It's just a bugged part of the flawed code which should prevent re-cloaking during system attack.
Cloak default fix for task forces - UPDATE:
This unlocks the "attack system" option for cloaked & former cloaked ships: (possible via redeploy anyway)
Re-cloak during system attack bug-fix:
The fix auto de-cloaks task forces when ordering "attack system" and prevents any re-cloaking until another order is given.
Note; this is a player GUI only fix. The AI code also has a bug (auto de-cloaks after the first turn of a system-attack). Since fixing this would be too time consuming, we just leave this small advantage for the AI (it's somewhat crippled anyway).
Thanks to DCER & thunderchero, who pointed me to the issue, another infamous bug of BotF resolved (iirc even Mickar requested this fix).
Unmodded, cloaked ships don't have the option to attack systems. If you de-cloak and wait a turn, the "attack system" option gets unlocked. Attacking at the same turn does still work via redeploy, though. And even worser, after ordering "attack system" you can re-cloak again.
But the one turn delay was never intended. It's just a bugged part of the flawed code which should prevent re-cloaking during system attack.
Cloak default fix for task forces - UPDATE:
This unlocks the "attack system" option for cloaked & former cloaked ships: (possible via redeploy anyway)
Code: Select all
trek.exe at 0x47B24
replace: (22 bytes)
83 79 68 00 75 04 80 49 41 08 83 7B 70 00 76 0A 83 79 68 00 75 04
with:
90 90 90 90 90 90 80 49 41 08 83 7B 70 00 76 0A 90 90 90 90 90 90
code changes:
00448724 909090909090 NOP
00448734 909090909090 NOP
Re-cloak during system attack bug-fix:
The fix auto de-cloaks task forces when ordering "attack system" and prevents any re-cloaking until another order is given.
Code: Select all
trek.exe at 0x47E60
change:
0F 87 36 01 00
to:
75 04 C6 40 68
00448A60 75 04 JNZ SHORT 448A66
00448A62 C640 68 00 MOV BYTE [EAX+68], 0
Thanks to DCER & thunderchero, who pointed me to the issue, another infamous bug of BotF resolved (iirc even Mickar requested this fix).
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
Re: Stealth and Cloak
great work SCT
"AI (it's somewhat crippled anyway)."
LOL love it!
"AI (it's somewhat crippled anyway)."
LOL love it!
Re: Stealth and Cloak
hi all
not sure if this will help but, i remember using a botf editor many years ago and it gave cloak options 1-5, i think option 4-5 cloaked the ships and 1-3 did not so i wondered and tested what it done.
I noticed that option 1-3 had an effect on the tactical battles, that a ship would start at a further or closer distance at the begining of a battle dependent on the 1-3 value.
i could be wrong as this was a long time ago, but pretty sure it did do this as i edited all strike vessels with the value that set them further back than the rest of the ships to give there long range torps
an advantage.
i cant remember which value was short/long 1/3, but im sure it would be easy enough for u guys to test and hopefully make more sense of the code.
anyhow if im wrong i appologise.
and to all u guys great work, what uve done to this game gives me the same felling as lookin at 7 of 9
i love it . thanx
not sure if this will help but, i remember using a botf editor many years ago and it gave cloak options 1-5, i think option 4-5 cloaked the ships and 1-3 did not so i wondered and tested what it done.
I noticed that option 1-3 had an effect on the tactical battles, that a ship would start at a further or closer distance at the begining of a battle dependent on the 1-3 value.
i could be wrong as this was a long time ago, but pretty sure it did do this as i edited all strike vessels with the value that set them further back than the rest of the ships to give there long range torps
an advantage.
i cant remember which value was short/long 1/3, but im sure it would be easy enough for u guys to test and hopefully make more sense of the code.
anyhow if im wrong i appologise.
and to all u guys great work, what uve done to this game gives me the same felling as lookin at 7 of 9
i love it . thanx
Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:As already mentioned, that's clearly contradicted by code analysis (and already previously via empirical tests). But I see where you come from. This was also my first impression, ruled out by running proper experiments (try google -> coincidence vs.causality).hupa wrote:i remember using a botf editor many years ago and it gave cloak options 1-5, i think option 4-5 cloaked the ships and 1-3 did not so i wondered and tested what it done.
I noticed that option 1-3 had an effect on the tactical battles, that a ship would start at a further or closer distance at the begining of a battle dependent on the 1-3 value.
Btw, this editor was a bit buggy i.e. changed other unwanted things.
Re: Stealth and Cloak
@SCT when you investigated this section of the trek.exe do you remember if there was any evidence that the programmers were going to use diffrent stealths/cloaks levels? or was there a diffrent purpose evident. any info in this regard may be of use to me
thank-you very muchSpocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:Stealth/cloak-level is just a myth, based on shiplist.sst defaults, without code support of any kind(aside of our new tactical combat cloak command check).
We know about all scan resp. cloak codes and I already looked into implementing cloak for stations(way too much work) and adding a stealth/cloak-level feature(still much work, but might be possible).
Remember these would be task force abilities, so, as a first step, the task force code would have to be changed.
Here is some info on map scan for a stealth project - cf. cloak 30 values above:
Code: Select all
-ships 4DA31A cmp dword ptr [edx+40h], 0 // icon on F1 map 4EA12C test ebx, ebx // F1 task forces column -stations 4DA19D cmp dword ptr [ebx+eax*4+40h], 0 // F1 icon 4EA06A cmp dword ptr [ebp+eax*4+40h], 0 //stats column - shared for ships! -AI map scan (for accept demand code only?): 420301 cmp dword ptr [ebp+eax*4+40h], 5 // deviation should be 0 ?
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Disable Cloak within Nebula (Fix?)
A belated solution to a reasonable request by Tethis: viewtopic.php?t=2775
Notes:
1.) This won't prevent usage of Cloak command in tactical combat (which isn't recommended due to interface bugs anyway): viewtopic.php?f=209&t=1998#p28787
2.) Nebula original code disables monster shields only for tarellian (ID 29h), new code disables shields and cloak for all ships, stations and monster.
3.) the code doesn't affect map cloak of task forces in sector, only tactical combat
4.) for nebula scan perturbing effect see: viewtopic.php?f=157&t=58&p=33478#p33467
5.) Sub_474880 also lowers the tactical combat agility of ships (only) in Black Hole sectors: agility multiplier (8 byte float) at asm-57B0F0 (default 1/3)
Code: Select all
trek.exe at 0x73CC7 change 0x21 bytes to
D8 E8 D3 42 0B 00 85 C0 74 13 33 D2 89 50 04 89 53 38 80 A3 0C 02 00 00 FE 80 60 68 FD 8B C3 EB 11
-asm--
004748C6 8BD8 MOV EBX, EAX
004748C8 E8 D3420B00 CALL 528BA0 // get ship, station or monster stack position
004748CD 85C0 TEST EAX, EAX
004748CF 74 13 JE SHORT 4748E4 // no ship, station or monster; check next
004748D1 33D2 XOR EDX, EDX
004748D3 8950 04 MOV [EAX+4], EDX // set shields 0
004748D6 8953 38 MOV [EBX+38], EDX // de-cloak
004748D9 80A3 0C020000 FE AND BYTE [EBX+20C], 0FE // target un-lock
004748E0 8060 68 FD AND BYTE [EAX+68], 0FD // shields un-lock
004748E4 8BC3 MOV EAX,EBX
004748E6 EB 11 JMP SHORT 4748F9 // check next object
1.) This won't prevent usage of Cloak command in tactical combat (which isn't recommended due to interface bugs anyway): viewtopic.php?f=209&t=1998#p28787
2.) Nebula original code disables monster shields only for tarellian (ID 29h), new code disables shields and cloak for all ships, stations and monster.
3.) the code doesn't affect map cloak of task forces in sector, only tactical combat
4.) for nebula scan perturbing effect see: viewtopic.php?f=157&t=58&p=33478#p33467
5.) Sub_474880 also lowers the tactical combat agility of ships (only) in Black Hole sectors: agility multiplier (8 byte float) at asm-57B0F0 (default 1/3)
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Stealth and Cloak
I was not aware of agility loss in black holesSpocks-cuddly-tribble wrote:5.) Sub_474880 also lowers the tactical combat agility of ships (only) in Black Hole sectors: agility multiplier (8 byte float) at asm-57B0F0 (default 1/3)
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Re: Stealth and Cloak
Well, it's about black hole sectors, 'in' the black hole you might lose even more agility...thunderchero wrote:I was not aware of agility loss in black holes
Btw, here is the table of likelihood for ship destruction by black hole when map speed lower than 2: viewtopic.php?f=75&t=919
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
Re: Stealth and Cloak
means re-cloak? otherwise it would be no advantage for tha AI?!SCT wrote:
Note; this is a player GUI only fix. The AI code also has a bug (auto de-cloaks after the first turn of a system-attack). Since fixing this would be too time consuming, we just leave this small advantage for the AI (it's somewhat crippled anyway)
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Emergency evade during surprise attack
Here is how to change the enforced 'hold' into 'evade' when surprise-attacked by a fully cloaked fleet:
Note that removing the lock-weapons statement on rare occasions might enable random torpedo fire at decloaking ships
Test patch:
Take note: This is mainly an AI helping patch recommended for single player mode.
Cloaked ships in partly cloaked fleets also use 'evade' instead of 'hold' i.e. they lose cloak advantage next turn!
This means no one-uncloaked-ship tactic/exploit anymore (which again can be countered by using the 'hold' command when made available for players).
On the other hand decloaking ships using 'evade' don't have their shields down when targeted by torpedoes, which is possible when uncloaked ships in same combat group. Since a human player hardly would put cloaked and un-cloaked ships in the same combat group(not fleet) vs a cloaked enemy, this again mostly helps AI.
Option with cloaked ships using 'Cloak' instead of 'Evade' (same movements as Evade but they should stay cloaked same as with 'Hold'):
Code: Select all
4721E1 mov dword ptr [ebx+1FCh], 0Dh ; set ship hold // 0x715E7 -> 07 'evade'
4721F0 mov dword ptr [ecx+54h], 0Dh ; set group Hold // 0x715F3 -> 07 'evade'
472213 or byte ptr [ebx+20Ch], 10h ; lock weapons // 0x71613 (80 8B 0C 02 00 00 10) -> 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Test patch:
Code: Select all
NAME: Emergency evade during surprise attack
DESC: Changes the enforced 'hold' into 'evade' when surprise-attacked by a fully cloaked fleet.
AUTHOR: Spocks-cuddly-tribble
URL: https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/onscreen/botf/viewtopic.php?f=201&t=66&p=52556#p52556
>> 0x000715E7 0D
<< 0x000715E7 07
>> 0x000715F3 0D
<< 0x000715F3 07
# remove lock weapons (on rare occasions random torpedo fire at decloaking ships possible):
>> 0x00071613 80 8B 0C 02 00 00 10
<< 0x00071613 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Cloaked ships in partly cloaked fleets also use 'evade' instead of 'hold' i.e. they lose cloak advantage next turn!
This means no one-uncloaked-ship tactic/exploit anymore (which again can be countered by using the 'hold' command when made available for players).
On the other hand decloaking ships using 'evade' don't have their shields down when targeted by torpedoes, which is possible when uncloaked ships in same combat group. Since a human player hardly would put cloaked and un-cloaked ships in the same combat group(not fleet) vs a cloaked enemy, this again mostly helps AI.
Option with cloaked ships using 'Cloak' instead of 'Evade' (same movements as Evade but they should stay cloaked same as with 'Hold'):
Code: Select all
NAME: Emergency evade during surprise attack (cloaked ships staying cloaked)
DESC: Changes the enforced 'hold' into 'evade' resp 'cloak' for cloaked ships when surprise-attacked by a fully cloaked fleet.
AUTHOR: Spocks-cuddly-tribble
URL: https://www.armadafleetcommand.com/onscreen/botf/viewtopic.php?f=201&t=66&p=52556#p52556
# 004721E1 BA 07000000 MOV EDX, 7 // Evade
# 004721E6 0353 38 ADD EDX, [EBX+38] // +1 if cloaked = 8 Cloak
# 004721E9 8993 FC010000 MOV [EBX+1FC], EDX // set ship order
# 004721EF 3B41 50 CMP EAX, [ECX+50] // if group leader
# 004721F2 75 03 JNZ SHORT 004721F7
# 004721F4 8951 54 MOV [ECX+54], EDX // set group order
>> 0x000715E1 C7 83 FC 01 00 00 0D 00 00 00 3B 41 50 75 07 C7 41 54 0D 00 00 00
<< 0x000715E1 BA 07 00 00 00 03 53 38 89 93 FC 01 00 00 3B 41 50 75 03 89 51 54
# remove lock weapons (on rare occasions random torpedo fire at decloaking ships possible):
>> 0x00071613 80 8B 0C 02 00 00 10
<< 0x00071613 90 90 90 90 90 90 90
Last edited by Spocks-cuddly-tribble on Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.