Supremacy new release

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Re: Supremacy new release

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geordie wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:14 pm
Iceman wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:21 pm There are a couple of unnamed Romulan officers from ENT but the shots I found are not very good.
I have ENT on DVD, if you know a number of episodes I would try to find someting.
Nope, but I can try to find out. I got these pics from Memory Alpha, I think the episode should be mentioned there (name or #).

Iceman wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:38 pm
Kellir wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:01 pm A request: Can you please make it so the smallest system is 100? A 20 pop system is not worth having.
We do have an open issue for precisely this, BTW - making it configurable in the Tables folder. So I'm not shooting down your request.

IIRC systems in BotF can have 80~400 pops.

What does everyone else think?
In fact I really like current diversity. I like some surprises in system discovery. The only problem could be if you are really stuck and not able to colonize anything to expand. But I do not mind to colonize really small system to open further opportunities.
I like it too. If you do get stuck, that's what Outposts are for. I get the feeling that people tend to underestimate the role of Outposts in expansion. I'd argue that that's precisely their main purpose. If we don't need them for expansion, then their purpose in the game is greatly diminished.

On the other hand recently I had a system with a population of 780, moons included :)
:shock: Yea, once in a while you do find one such system, and it's awesome!
The code does try not to place more than one "ideal" planet in each system, but does not enforce it.

BTW - I have noticed, that after defeating the Borg no empire is willing to declare a war against me, even with the regard at zero and constant provocations.
Well, you have defeated the Borg, no one in their right minds would dare to pick a fight with you :wink:
Seriously though, that's odd. Can you post a savegame so that I can check?

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Re: Supremacy new release

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Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:22 pm Hi Iceman,
Hi SCT.
Sorry to have taken so long to reply, but I was away all day yesterday, on a family reunion.

Can you tell us a bit about your AI codes for offensive ship tasks?
Sure, but it's not yet something really solid, still very much a WiP.

- min fleet strength vs enemy forces global or in target area for war/invade
The AI doesn´t currently check global strength when attacking, it only checks the combined combat strength of the target's owner and allies, at the target sector. If it doesn't have at least twice the combat strength, it will not attack.

Warlike minors will use the same parameters (and Raider minors for raiding purposes) when deciding to (declare war and) attack colonies of major civs (except the Borg) in range of their ships, if the target colony is inside or adjacent to their territory.

- search & destroy enemy main fleet feature? (BotF attack task is limited to stations/monsters :???: so only defensive patrol and invade systems :dwn: )
The AI doesn't check for a main fleet, it only targets colonies and stations for now, and IIRC scouts that might be spying your territory and fleet movement. But by attacking colonies, it ends up attacking fleets (that are defending them).

- selection of invade target systems
For eachvinvasion fleet, the AI checks which colonies it can invade successfully, and then chooses the one that has the highest "colonization" value, modified a bit by its current defenses (shields, OBs, fleets, station).
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:06 amI get the feeling that people tend to underestimate the role of Outposts in expansion. I'd argue that that's precisely their main purpose. If we don't need them for expansion, then their purpose in the game is greatly diminished.
Yep, but strategic handling of ship range (stranding enemy fleets) is tricky if one depends on stations.
An infamous BotF AI exploit is the timed destruction of range providing outposts during invasions.
Station gone -> instant range loss
Shipyard -> one turn to react (you see enemy fleet in sector before bombing/invasion, unless nearby-anomaly scan disruption/cloaked)

Iceman wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:57 amit only checks the combined combat strength of the target's owner and allies, at the target sector. If it doesn't have at least twice the combat strength, it will not attack.
So colony sectors without ships/station can lure the AI in traps via overpowered nearby fleets? (BotF AI tries to scan fleet strengths within 4 sectors).
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:16 pm
Iceman wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:06 amI get the feeling that people tend to underestimate the role of Outposts in expansion. I'd argue that that's precisely their main purpose. If we don't need them for expansion, then their purpose in the game is greatly diminished.
Yep, but strategic handling of ship range (stranding enemy fleets) is tricky if one depends on stations.
Notice I was talking about using Outposts for expansion, during the expansion phase. That was the context of my comment. There have been a couple of people that mentioned not being able to expand at some point in their games because systems were too far apart, or were too small.
Once you get to expand, you can obviously build more shipyards for range extension.

Iceman wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:57 amit only checks the combined combat strength of the target's owner and allies, at the target sector. If it doesn't have at least twice the combat strength, it will not attack.
So colony sectors without ships/station can lure the AI in traps via overpowered nearby fleets? (BotF AI tries to scan fleet strengths within 4 sectors).
It used to check the neighboring sectors too, but apparently I disabled it recently when I refactored that code... Will fix that asap, thx!
I can make it check in a larger radius, but that might just end up making the AI more passive...
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:26 pmnot being able to expand at some point in their games because systems were too far apart
Offensive expansion sometimes has the same 'gap' issue. :wink:
So make sure the AI does not use only the range provided by a single (and insufficiently guarded) outpost as base for invasions. Even for an inferior enemy it's too easy to sacrifice-ram this outpost with a small fleet of long range ships to strand an invasion fleet of 50+ heavy warships.
So 2nd backup outpost or extra protection depending on nearby enemy forces?
And, unlike BotF, allow outpost construction in enemy claimed sectors at war. So the invading TTs can always restore range for stranded fleets. :up:

Iceman wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:26 pmI can make it check in a larger radius, but that might just end up making the AI more passive...
Best workaround is all enemy ships that can reach the target in one turn (with dynamic target switch).
Since, depending on enemy range, one needs to center/position/move defending fleets to cover the most territoy, perhaps a certain random fleet percentage for random distraction tasks (lure defender away). You could even add some random TTs to these AI harass/raid fleets to confuse defender. :twisted:
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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geordie wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:14 pm Some old topics:
Iceman wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:21 pm There are a couple of unnamed Romulan officers from ENT but the shots I found are not very good.
I have ENT on DVD, if you know a number of episodes I would try to find someting.
Here.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:54 pm And, unlike BotF, allow outpost construction in enemy claimed sectors at war.
Supremacy has always allowed that :wink:
So the invading TTs can always restore range for stranded fleets. :up:
You mean Construction Ships (in Supremacy), right? :wink:
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Re: Supremacy new release

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I have tried getting two of the majors to cede territory, and they accepted. But the territory remains disputed the next turn. Does the cede territory not work yet?
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Re: Supremacy new release

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the6the wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:07 pm I have tried getting two of the majors to cede territory, and they accepted. But the territory remains disputed the next turn. Does the cede territory not work yet?
It should be working... can you post a savegame where this can be verified, please? So we can check what's happening.

Is the sector(s) claimed by anyone else?
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Some of the sectors are minor owned, but most of them should have changed.

Take a look
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Re: Supremacy new release

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I suspect that it might have something to do with you being at war with them, but I'll need to dig deeper into it.

What was the proposal that you sent them? Offer Credits for Request Cede Territory?

Question:
When you are at war with another civ, should you be able to offer any deal *other than* one that includes a Cease-Fire :?:
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:57 am
Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:22 pm - min fleet strength vs enemy forces global or in target area for war/invade
The AI doesn´t currently check global strength when attacking, it only checks the combined combat strength of the target's owner and allies, at the target sector. If it doesn't have at least twice the combat strength, it will not attack.
It does check its own global fleet strength vs the opponent's when deciding whether to declare war or not though. Just to clarify.
That formula needs to be improved.

In fact, this report
geordie wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:14 pm I have noticed, that after defeating the Borg no empire is willing to declare a war against me, even with the regard at zero and constant provocations.
might be related to this topic.
Your military strength might just be way too high for anyone else to venture declaring war.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:37 amIt does check its own global fleet strength vs the opponent's when deciding whether to declare war or not though.
AFAIK BotF does it similar + all systems get checked for defending forces within four sectors used for defensive/offensive threat/advantage estimations.

Also it checks if a non-ally empire becomes too powerful (no realistic chance for treaty) so lower ranked AIs can try to team up before it's too late.

Ship tasks check all enemy forces that can reach the target in X turns (1 or 2 depending on task status). Min value for TskSh vs enemy in area is 1.25 + up too 20% extra buffer vs experienced enemy ships.

Funny bug is it checks the fleet speed only, not the ships, so re-deploying (remove slow ship from TF) can trick the AI.
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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Iceman wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:43 am I suspect that it might have something to do with you being at war with them, but I'll need to dig deeper into it.

What was the proposal that you sent them? Offer Credits for Request Cede Territory?

Question:
When you are at war with another civ, should you be able to offer any deal *other than* one that includes a Cease-Fire :?:
I requested them to cede territory. That's it. And they accepted the request.
What I find a little strange also is the fact that the Romulans are receptive towards me, even though we are at war. I guess that has to be possible, otherwise it would be impossible to sign a ceasefire..

Ha! Good question! In RL wars, there are some deals that are made during a war without a ceasefire (at least not an all-encompassing one). For example prisoner exchange - There might be a short ceasefire on a small portion of the territory in order to swap POWs. but the war continues on other parts of the territory, and on that part immediately after the fact. The wheat treaty in the Black Sea nowadays also comes to mind..
But I think you're right. For the purpose of that game, due to the restrictive parameters, the only communication possible between warring factions should be restricted to a ceasefire (with a possibility of additional demands/gifts), or better.
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Re: Supremacy new release

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the6the wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:13 pm I requested them to cede territory. That's it. And they accepted the request.
:shock: Found and fixed the issue. They'll not accept it anymore. :wink:
The diplomacy code is still incomplete re those latest additions, I'll see about improving it.

What I find a little strange also is the fact that the Romulans are receptive towards me, even though we are at war. I guess that has to be possible, otherwise it would be impossible to sign a ceasefire..
Some of the Regard penalties are temporary, so it is possible that a civ might declare war due to a conjunctural low in relations that later on dissipates... but this will need to be addressed, yes.

Ha! Good question! In RL wars, there are some deals that are made during a war without a ceasefire (at least not an all-encompassing one). For example prisoner exchange - There might be a short ceasefire on a small portion of the territory in order to swap POWs. but the war continues on other parts of the territory, and on that part immediately after the fact. The wheat treaty in the Black Sea nowadays also comes to mind..
But I think you're right. For the purpose of that game, due to the restrictive parameters, the only communication possible between warring factions should be restricted to a ceasefire (with a possibility of additional demands/gifts), or better.
I guess I was thinking about
REQUEST
- Give Credits
- Give Resources
- Cede Contested
- Give Map Data
as single elements in the proposal, as it doesn't make much sense to demand these when at war (without adding a Cease-Fire to the package).

As for
OFFER
(same elements),
I guess they should be valid (either as single elements or attached to a Cease-Fire).
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