Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

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thunderchero
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by thunderchero »

If anyone is interested you can sign up for beta testing of next installer with UM5 corrections

see this post
viewtopic.php?p=59217#p59217
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by Ovarwa »

Hi,

I just noticed that the Federation gets a Union Shipyard as well as a Starfleet Shipyard on some early levels, but not a Solar Whatever. Meanwhile, the Cardassians get some buildings too advanced for them, such as a Thermal Tether and Security Somethingorother. IIRC, the Romulans have some strangeness too. I reinstalled just to be sure.

I suspect the intention is not simply to give everyone buildings they are eligible for, since no one gets a Science Institute, so it might be worthwhile to vet what is there.... if it is not already going into the patch.

Anyway,

Ken
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by thunderchero »

Ovarwa wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 6:26 pm I just noticed that the Federation gets a Union Shipyard as well as a Starfleet Shipyard on some early levels, but not a Solar Whatever. Meanwhile, the Cardassians get some buildings too advanced for them, such as a Thermal Tether and Security Somethingorother. IIRC, the Romulans have some strangeness too.
Flocke wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 2:00 am hint
yeah starting structures have always been a pain. it would be nice to see an auto set feature for non main structures in UE. since main structures have multiple of each they would need to be set manually.
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by Ovarwa »

Hi,

Returning to ship power and cost, do you intend for ship cost to not necessarily reflect their Power across factions? I wonder, because ship types have been standardized across factions, and buildings almost so.

For example, you note that the Heavy Explorer is better than the Ranor, even though it costs less.
Dafedz wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 12:27 pm As for the cost of the Fed Heavy Explorer. It's relatively balanced with the ship cost formula of all other Fed ship costs that preceded it (though there are slight variations here and there). It appears 'cheap', but consider its Firepower is the lowest of all empire endgame Heavy Commands. This is offset however by it having the best Defence rating. It's over all POWER rating (11,123) is 'average', in the middle, being slightly superior to the Cards Ranor (10,295) and Roms Valdore (10,770), but inferior to the Dominion Legend (11,174) and Klingon Negh'Var (12,711 - being the strongest in game). Hope this clears things up.
The Cardassians also fare worse when comparing the Explorer 1 (3040) vs Galor (2724.65) for the same cost.

Rounding things out, the Vanguard (3101.95, ~2% better but ~20% more expensive!!), the Kahless, First of Its Name (3968.35, 30% better but only 5% more expensive) and the (2977.06, 2% less powerful but 8% more expensive).

EDIT: I hope my cut and paste math was correct! :D

Anyway,

Ken
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by thunderchero »

Ovarwa wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:12 pm Hi,

Returning to ship power and cost, do you intend for ship cost to not necessarily reflect their Power across factions? I wonder, because ship types have been standardized across factions, and buildings almost so.

For example, you note that the Heavy Explorer is better than the Ranor, even though it costs less.
Dafedz wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 12:27 pm As for the cost of the Fed Heavy Explorer. It's relatively balanced with the ship cost formula of all other Fed ship costs that preceded it (though there are slight variations here and there). It appears 'cheap', but consider its Firepower is the lowest of all empire endgame Heavy Commands. This is offset however by it having the best Defence rating. It's over all POWER rating (11,123) is 'average', in the middle, being slightly superior to the Cards Ranor (10,295) and Roms Valdore (10,770), but inferior to the Dominion Legend (11,174) and Klingon Negh'Var (12,711 - being the strongest in game). Hope this clears things up.
The Cardassians also fare worse when comparing the Explorer 1 (3040) vs Galor (2724.65) for the same cost.

Rounding things out, the Vanguard (3101.95, ~2% better but ~20% more expensive!!), the Kahless, First of Its Name (3968.35, 30% better but only 5% more expensive) and the (2977.06, 2% less powerful but 8% more expensive).

EDIT: I hope my cut and paste math was correct! :D

Anyway,

Ken
I will remind you to look at all stats
Explorer 1 vs Galor 1
comp.jpg
comp.jpg (221.45 KiB) Viewed 672 times
galor has better phaser damage and accuracy and hull
while
explorer has better shield and shield recharge

for a true comparison you need to to 1 vs 1 combat
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by Ovarwa »

Hi,
thunderchero wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 2:59 pm
I will remind you to look at all stats
Explorer 1 vs Galor 1
comp.jpg
galor has better phaser damage and accuracy and hull
while
explorer has better shield and shield recharge

for a true comparison you need to to 1 vs 1 combat
True! Probably more than one combat, because sometimes tactical choices matter, and perhaps scenarios with competing fleets of each kind of ship rather than 1:1, which might also make a difference.

However, Dafedz said that he was speccing ships using a mathematical formula. My question is based on that formula... and I admit that I'm curious! (Curious in the sense of interested, not (necessarily) strange :)/2.) If he had said that the ship stats were based on empirical testing, I'd never have asked. But... there's a formula! So I ask on that basis, and not along the lines of "How do you know that is a realistic measure of ship power or value?"

As an aside, I'm kind of amazed at, and grateful for, all the work he, you and others (including Gowron of Blessed Memory) have put into these mods. Even reading the stats for a mod or tweaking it with UE is a lot.

EDIT: I notice that your UE lists defensive and offensive power in ship stats... My copy, version 0.7.2dev5c, does not. I'm probably out of date.
EDIT2: Updated. :)

Anyway,

Ken
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by Spocks-cuddly-tribble »

Ovarwa wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 1:59 pmUE lists defensive and offensive power in ship stats...
This data is only used for AI to get a first impression: viewtopic.php?p=50855#p50855

Albeit the UE formula is adjustable for player needs (thanks to Flocke :up: ).
I don't know how many bugs is too many but that point is reached somewhere before however many in BotF is.
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Re: Ultimate Mod 5 v5.5 Redux (New)

Post by Ovarwa »

Hi,
Spocks-cuddly-tribble wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:34 pm
Ovarwa wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 1:59 pmUE lists defensive and offensive power in ship stats...
This data is only used for AI to get a first impression: viewtopic.php?p=50855#p50855
Makes sense! Effectiveness in real life often belies the stat block, whether it's playing BotF or real military equipment.

Anyway,

Ken
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