The Dominion

Supremacy; support/discussion/questions

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the6the
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Re: The Dominion

Post by the6the »

Iceman wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:18 pm It's not related to fleet support, you have plenty to spare.
And it's not related to the Dominion.

You just have too many *unmanned* PFs! Each one costs "maintenance" - and IIRC in Impossible, that cost is tripled.
I scrapped a bunch of them and immediately went to +175 credits a turn.

As for the bug, didn't you upgrade Intel to level 4? Because if I scrap that PF, I get to build level 1s...
Oh Wow. That would never have crossed my mind.. PF's costing that much. O.k. good to know! :up:
That's kind of a bummer though, coz it means you can't really prepare a huge pop system ahead of time, without getting a lot of redundant pops.. But I get why it is the way it is. Timing is crucial. :up:

As for the bug - no, AFAICR I didn't upgrade it, it was on the list to begin with. I would have had to upgrade it 3 times, and I think I'd remember doing that.
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Re: The Dominion

Post by Iceman »

the6the wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:08 pm Oh Wow. That would never have crossed my mind.. PF's costing that much. O.k. good to know! :up:
It's not that they cost that much each, the problem is that you have a ton of them. :wink: And I didn't even go through all your systems.
For reference the cost is 1 credit per unmanned PF, doubled for Hard and tripled for Impossible.
Some time ago, following a similar discussion, I changed it to this maintenance cost only applying when the system's population is still growing. So it's a temporary upkeep, really. (*)

That's kind of a bummer though, coz it means you can't really prepare a huge pop system ahead of time, without getting a lot of redundant pops.. But I get why it is the way it is. Timing is crucial. :up:
Without going into a RL vs gameplay debate :mrgreen: , I've seen some really crazy stuff in some savegames.
To notice that building stuff actually "costs" credits, since you're not getting credits from Trade Goods. I'd argue that those credits are more useful earlier than later, but the reduced micromanagement kind of makes up for it.

(*) I could kind of reverse it and make it apply only after population is maximized, but that would make it kind of a permanent upkeep.
I can also just scrap the whole idea, since if you build 20 or 30 of each type of PF whatever the system size, you're already losing a bunch of TG credits by keeping your build queue busy unnecessarily.
Or, if we want to keep some degree of upkeep, pay only for those PFs above the maximum the colony can possibly man when fully populated.

This is not meant to be some sort of punishment, but an incentive to play efficiently - though you can always look at it both ways ofc. :wink:

As for the bug - no, AFAICR I didn't upgrade it, it was on the list to begin with. I would have had to upgrade it 3 times, and I think I'd remember doing that.
You wouldn't happen to have a savegame right before colonizing that system, would you?
Did it happen in any other system? I guess I can try to colonize a system with your save, and check what happens.
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the6the
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Re: The Dominion

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No, I'd keep the upkeep as is, I just never noticed it in any of the other games I played.. I must have been more efficient in those;)
I will definitely have my eye on this in the future though :up:

Here's a savegame from, not before I colonized it, but before I built the first Intel PF, and interestingly, it's giving me a lvl1:
SP Dominion Large Irregular 56.sav
(525.99 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
I have no idea what happened between the two savegames, but it wasn't me.
The difference is only 20 turns. I built 14 other PFs in that time, and there was 3 turns left to finish the current build.. and with 4 active production PFs at turn 56 it would take me 2 turns to build the 5th production PF. A good number of them were research PFs worth 150.. the question is whether I would have even have enough time/turns to upgrade that intel PF to level 4 in those 20 turns (I didn't buy any buildings with credits in this system), even unintentionally. autobuild is off.
Dunno.
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Re: The Dominion

Post by Iceman »

Maybe I reverse this upkeep issue - that is, you won't pay it while the colony is still growing its pop, and will start paying it when it is fully populated :?:
This way you can reduce micromanagement while pop is growing, and you can avoid the upkeep if you only order as many PFs as its pop / 10.

The Intel PF issue, maybe it was one of those multithreading freak issues; though I disabled multithreading in turn processing :???:
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the6the
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Re: The Dominion

Post by the6the »

I actually like the upkeep as is. I think it's more handy not having the upkeep in full popped colonies.
Quite often, I like to switch the focus of a colony quickly (form industry to research for instance), and if you reverse the upkeep, having all those empty buildings on standby would cost more than what their worth, ergo I would have to scrap them. Then, to switch focus, I'd have to build up the PFs all over again..
Having the upkeep during pop increase makes much more sense. You have to keep an eye on each growing colony anyway..
I only had the issue because I didn't know about the upkeep. Now that I know about it, the issue no longer exists
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