The Dominion

[Iceman]

Maybe I reverse this upkeep issue - that is, you won't pay it while the colony is still growing its pop, and will start paying it when it is fully populated
This way you can reduce micromanagement while pop is growing, and you can avoid the upkeep if you only order as many PFs as its pop / 10.

The Intel PF issue, maybe it was one of those multithreading freak issues; though I disabled multithreading in turn processing

[the6the]

I actually like the upkeep as is. I think it's more handy not having the upkeep in full popped colonies.
Quite often, I like to switch the focus of a colony quickly (form industry to research for instance), and if you reverse the upkeep, having all those empty buildings on standby would cost more than what their worth, ergo I would have to scrap them. Then, to switch focus, I'd have to build up the PFs all over again..
Having the upkeep during pop increase makes much more sense. You have to keep an eye on each growing colony anyway..
I only had the issue because I didn't know about the upkeep. Now that I know about it, the issue no longer exists

[Iceman]

I started playing a Dominion game a few days ago, but I don't have much in the way of feedback yet.
One thing that sounds odd though is the +Regard building; the description implies that the effect is for members of the Dominion only, but this was actually changed to Friendly+ civs in contact. We should probably keep it for Friendly+ civs (as the Dominion doesn't have default trade routes to improve relations), and adapt the description

[geordie]

I support keeping the +1 Regard for friendly+ civs. I like that feature. For me it fits to the Dominion characteristics.
But I have other proposal for testing.
In about last year I tried three Dominion games and each time I got all colonies at the fanatic morale level before completing the research of the White Distribution Centre, so I had no need to construct it.
That's why I propose to lower the Great Link morale bonus to +1 and check how it works.

[Iceman]

I support keeping the +1 Regard for friendly+ civs. I like that feature. For me it fits to the Dominion characteristics.

In about last year I tried three Dominion games and each time I got all colonies at the fanatic morale level before completing the research of the White Distribution Centre, so I had no need to construct it.
That's why I propose to lower the Great Link morale bonus to +1 and check how it works.

But the Dominion does not have any Morale Empire-Wide buildings anymore; the WDC is the only building can be built in any native Dominion colonies, giving them the local Morale bonus (+1 where it is built).
The other buildings with a Morale bonus can only be built in Rogue planets, they don't affect the Morale level in any other colony, only in the colony they're built in:

The Great Link, +2 Morale, can be built in all Rogue planets
Vorta Cloning Lab, +1 Morale, can be built in all Rogue planets
K-W Factory, +1 Morale, can be built in all Rogue planets

Changeling Network, +1 Morale, can only be built in one Rogue planet.

So all Rogue planets can get to +4 Morale, and one of them to +5, but Jem'Hadar colonies do not benefit from this.

Maybe the high morale you're seeing is from events like eliminating other empires (+50) ? It should drop every turn though (unless other events compensate for that).

(If we want to drop one of these Morale bonuses, I guess it should be the Vorta Cloning Lab, since it has another useful bonus)

[geordie]

I had no wars with other empires, that's why I raised that. I saw the descriptions of the morale bonuses following buildings designated for rogue planets, but please check them, because the only difference might follow the number of my colonized systems, but it would be far too much morale support for the mid game.
My save just before reaching full level 6 research is attached.

SP Dominion Huge Irregular 227.zip

(890.1 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

[Iceman]

Well, the problem is most likely the Dominion getting +4 Morale for each colonized system. It's the largest modifier for colonization (the Feds and Roms get +3).
You have 140 colonies, do the math The odd thing is that the AIs only have ~40 each... it is most likely related to Star Density being set to Sparse - the AI is too slow expanding in low star count environments.

If you let a turn go by without colonizing a system, you'll see that Morale in J'H Fanatic colonies drops by 5, and in Founder colonies by 2 or 3. In lower morale colonies the drop is lower, ofc.

I'd say we need to decrease those +4 to at least +3, if not +2
Or even set it to zero, I'm not sure if the J'H are capable of that kind of emotion

[geordie]

I found sparse star density more attractive, like a sort of additional challenge.

[Iceman]

Yes, it's a good challenge I'm playing a Large Cluster galaxy, which is also a nice challenge, since those also have less stars than Irregular.
I'll try to look into the AI being more efficient at expanding.
Thanks!

[geordie]

I found also one small problem in that Dominion game.
The Vaadwaur are the member of the Dominion and there is the Wargamer Institute under construction In the save I have uploaded (please buy it for the check).
The problem is that I cannot train native Vaadwaur ships using the Wargames Institute. I can train other ships, even Vulcan ones or a merge fleet with the Vaadwaur ships included, but not a separate fleet of the native ones.

EDIT: The same is for the Andorian War College - no training for native, Andorian ships.

[Iceman]

Since you're playing at Impossible, all AI ships start at Elite already, so they cannot be trained any further; only Klingon ships can be *trained* to Legendary status.
If you merge any non-Elite ships (your native ships) into those fleets, you can give the fleet the Train order, but only the non-Elite ships in it will actually increase their XP.

[geordie]

OK. Thanks!

[Iceman]

Maybe only the ships of AI *empires* should start at higher XP levels
The point of high XP level minor civ ships was for (their) defense, but it might be too unbalancing when they join an empire

[geordie]

As I remember I have a similar situation with other races as well - A fast morale burst after massive system colonization. It is about reaching scout 2 / colony ship 2 technologies. Scout 2 allows searching nice systems quicker.
So I would propose to lower that for all races, but of course the Dominion case is the most extreme one. But I also propose to lower or liquidate the penalty for no new colonies in given turn.

[Iceman]

As I remember I have a similar situation with other races as well - A fast morale burst after massive system colonization. It is about reaching scout 2 / colony ship 2 technologies. Scout 2 allows searching nice systems quicker.

Yes, it is the same for all civs. The Dominion just has a larger modifier than the rest, so it's more noticeable.

So I would propose to lower that for all races, but of course the Dominion case is the most extreme one.

I've been mulling over the idea of restricting this bonus to a single instance per turn, so that it doesn't matter how many systems you colonize in a turn, but I'm not sure if it's feasible.
You could still somewhat game the system and delay colonization of systems by only colonizing one a turn, but there's no way around that.

But I also propose to lower or liquidate the penalty for no new colonies in given turn.

There is no penalty.
Morale decreasing in the example I pointed out in your savegame is a direct consequence of how morale works. I think it's the same as in BotF. I'll try to explain later.