Newb question about the 1 uncloaked ship tactic

Post by **spier123** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:43 pm

hey guys, i just picked up this game (a decade too late i know). I've read through the guides and i have a pretty good understanding of the game mechanics except one thing:

When you're pulling off the one uncloaked ship maneuver, must the one uncloaked ship be of a different class than your other cloaked ships? For example, say i have a fleet of 9 cloaked warbirds and another fleet of one uncloaked warbird. When i enter the battle, will the game engine group the cloaked and uncloaked ships as a "command" fleet and consequently decloak the entire fleet during a battle, thereby removing my first strike advantage?

Thanks. also, i'm playing the UDMIII mod on hard difficulty and i'm not finding it too terribly hard playing as the romulans. Would you recommend that i increase the difficulty to the highest settings?

Post by **stardust** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:10 pm

ramp it up full blast and have fun

officially i've heard to pull off the cloaking trick the lure ship be a different class to your attacking fleet...I.e use a destroyer, scout or support as the lure so your command ships get the extra turn advantage.

Post by **ruthlessferengi** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:18 pm

if you leave one ship uncloaked, your entire group of that class will be targeted. hence if you have heavies and lights cloaked, bring on TT or colony ship uncloaked. else the cloak thing is void for that class.

Post by **jonboylondon** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:27 pm

Indeed....

Always take a scout ship as part of any heavy invasion fleet as:

1 - The AI always targets the smaller ships first (even with uncloaked)...

2- The game (as mentioned) only lets you target the uncloacked ships first. I suspect here that though half your fleet was cloaked but it was grouped together as cloaked ships can be hit either by chance of proximity to an uncloaked ship or by very high experienced crews....

3 - Scouts have the best scan range and you always want to see what your coming up against....

JBL

Post by **spier123** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:26 pm

thanks for the replies. Yeah, as suspected as much but i just needed confirmation.

Oh, and the game simply rocks (especially with UDMIII). The sad thing is that i planned to get it when it first came out but was discouraged by the poor reviews. Uhhh...

Post by **stardust** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:29 pm

what reviews?

the only games i've had are Starfleet Academy, TNG A final Unity and BOTF

Post by **spier123** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:43 pm

some review sites complained about the "intense" amount of micromanaging required to play the game, which as it turns out, was a keyword for the game having depth. I wish that i knew that back then.

This game in some respects reminds me of one of my favorite games of all time: star wars rebellion.

Post by **stardust** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:49 pm

i love the micromanagement...unless i'm at war with someone...then it goes right out the window

Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:50 pm

jonboylondon wrote:I suspect here that though half your fleet was cloaked but it was grouped together as cloaked ships can be hit either by chance of proximity to an uncloaked ship or by very high experienced crews....

Almost there

,

torpedoes (not beam weapons!) can target cloaked ships if there is at least one uncloaked ship in the same group:
fast attack, slow, long range, support...
This is fatal if the opponent has a full cloaked fleet and knows which orders ensure best torpedo fire rate against the cloaked & unshielded ships.

Post by **jaruler** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:13 pm

hang on.

are you all saying that cloaked ships can be fired upon?

i have always used the fleet cloak and 1 uncloaked or tt so i can still get the free fire turn against other cloaked ships.

i have never had my fleet killed while they are cloaked. even with 1 of them of the same type uncloaked.

can someone clarify. thanks

Post by **Flocke** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:49 pm

Never tested but I think jbl is right with experience being a key.
With high crew experience, ships automaticly are targeting a new opponent in same turn if first one got destroyed. The corresponding routine might not check if other ships of same group are cloaked but just picks another enemy of same group (group type).
Another key for this might be battleships improving target control.

And of course the torpedos, right, phasers always only damage the targeted ship while torpedos damage all of the target group that come in between, unregarding cloaking.
Test it with another player in mp, you'll see that with group targeting cloaked ships get selected as target as well by the red rectangle.

And yes, I've experienced ships being destroyed that have been cloaked at least by torpedos and I believe I've seen cloaked ships being targeted by phasers as well with 2nd or delayed fire high experienced ships often have after their original target got destroyed.

Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:53 pm

Flocke wrote:Never tested but I think jbl is right with experience being a key.
With high crew experience, ships automaticly are targeting a new opponent in same turn if first one got destroyed.

Crew experience has nothing to do with this subject, aside of the fact that it increases accuracy.
(Also keep in mind there is still the training bug)
Even a green ship, with the right beam weapon stats, can attack ships of all five group types at the same turn.

Flocke wrote:The corresponding routine might not check if other ships of same group are cloaked but just picks another enemy of same group (group type).

That we can clearly rule out. Just doublecheck Tactical Event Log and search for the name of the cloaked ship that you think is been hit by a phaser and you will see it was just an illusion (or a display bug of 3D engine - and there are tons of).

Flocke wrote:Another key for this might be battleships improving target control.

This Battleship Ã¢â‚¬Å“for command and controlÃ¢â‚¬

Post by **Picard03** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:50 pm

um, i've heard that some of the cardassin ships cloak. which ones and how do fix that bug??

Post by **KrazeeXXL** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:17 am

@Picard03
Cardis can cloak? not in vanilla but for sure in some mods!

btw: control is an illusion

ships beeing hit or not:

I checked out "some" event logs long time ago in fact of this case (saw cloaked beeing hit) and therefore I have to agree Spocks-cuddly-tribble. it's just another bug.
maybe "they" invented this feature but never finished it.

Post by **Picard03** » Sat May 16, 2009 3:30 am

This was the patch 1.01 patch notes from the company makers. Notice how they wanted cards to cloak. Just type in birth of the federation patch in google its the 1st site that pops up!
Version 1.0.1 Changes

The following problems have been fixed in version 1.0.1:

* The problem with the mouse slowing down over time has been fixed.

* Memory leaks have been eliminated. You should no longer need to restart the game periodically to free up memory and restore game speed.

* You can now view all the systems in the Solar System Inventory window.

* In version 1.0, if you removed a troop transport that was working on an outpost, the unfinished outpost would remain. In version 1.0.1, the outpost is now correctly destroyed when the transport is removed.

* Outposts and starbases can now repair themselves.

* ----->Cloaking ships owned by Cardassians can now cloak.

* A crash caused by chatting during tactical combat in multiplayer games is fixed.

* A random crash caused by clicking on a sector on the Main Galactic map is now fixed.

* Ground combat bonuses from structures such as the Angosian Super Soldier Academy are now applied to troop transports and ground forces.

* Out of synch errors in multiplayer have been fixed.

* The Vendetta winning condition is now calculated correctly even if some of the empires are eliminated. In version 1.0, the Klingon Empire would be declared the victor as long as the Ferengi and Cardassians were destroyed, even if the Klingons themselves were eliminated.