shiplist.sst info needed

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

does the C0 have any "combos" example turret 360 up or turret 360 down?

No, with 360 degree full arc that'd be pointless in BotF since it's not really moving from a zero position.

You only need 'turret' if you want your ship to fire in all directions while being too lazy to add and edit all phaser slots and values for this.

And it looks strange e.g. vanilla Vor'cha fires from it's only forward hob slot through the own hull in aft direction.

In combo with orientation data (add 0xC0) you get a 120 degree medium default arc:

bits 7 & 8 for value 4 (firing arc):

0 or both set 0.5 = 120 degree (Beam/Emitter Banks?)
only bit 7 set 0.866 = 60 degree (Dual & Heavy Cannons?)
only bit 8 set 0 = 180 degree (Beam/Emitter Array?)

[thunderchero]

I have only done a couple tests

here is my saved game settings;
vanilla
testing hu science vessel II phaser slots (7 hard points)

edited ship stats of science vessel II,
number of torpedoes set to 0,
min beam changed to 0,
damage increased to 125,
max phaser range increased to 1400,
firing arc changed 0.0 to 360.0 (no effect)

changed trek initial combat distance to 15
save is ready for combat
55 card scout II vs 1 fed science vessel II

when combat begins fed science vessel II is inside the circle of card scout II, so any angle firing solution is possible.

test2.jpg (201.67 KiB) Viewed 1571 times

cards all ship hail
fed science vessel II -> assault
when testing all hardpoints set to 44 or 84 no phaser fire but fed science vessel II rear shields will flash like they are firing.

this testing could be very disappointing.

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

edited ship stats

min beam changed to 0,

firing arc changed 0.0 to 360.0 (no effect)

'min beam' ??? There is no beam min range?

'beam min range' now 'firing arc' in UE is former BotF dev version ship firing arc?

The value should be unused (unless with new aft torpedo code)

Except the value 0 will also mess the weapon labels and count (-> more issues ).

when testing all hardpoints set to 44 or 84 no phaser fire but fed science vessel II rear shields will flash like they are firing.

Starboard (right) with narrow/wide arc?

I also noticed testing unfitting slot orientation values leads to odd test results.

The code might check only the phaser slot closest to the target for orientation/arc and, even if no firing solution, ignore the other slots and values?

Plus counterintuitive phaser target selection in BotF makes testing even worse...


---

For the arcs note the degree value is used for both axes at the same time (simple cosine calculation). Looks like:

1-179 cone
180 like bsp plane
181-359 inverted cone
360 full sphere

[thunderchero]

'min beam' ??? There is no beam min range?

I thought "min range" went for all weapon types

should I install "new aft torpedo code" for testing?

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

I thought "min range" went for all weapon types

should I install "new aft torpedo code" for testing?

Current UE should have only torpedo min range (beam has none, see above)?

No, don't combine phaser arc tests with new torpedo patch (for now).


A confusing/misleading label error by DCER/Joker/Gowron 'beam min range' was corrected to unused dev 'firing arc', now used for aft torpedo patch.

Note; for armed ships this dev firing arc value (former 'beam min range') must not be set zero!

[thunderchero]

off topic

is there a patch (for testing) to always write tevent.txt even in MP?

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

is there a patch (for testing) to always write tevent.txt even in MP?

I don't think so (not yet). And note that some data is wrong, and/or out of sync, so testing becomes confusing e.g. 'at range X' doesn't change in the event log when ship positions change during tactical turns.

[thunderchero]

so testing becomes confusing

that is where I am at now nothing is going as expected, sad part is I have no idea where to start explaining results.
example; ship fires different between group command and solo command, and neither is direction expected.

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

ship fires different between group command and solo command, and neither is direction expected.

This is expected, since in solo mode phaser ignore all other targets even if the main target is in a blind angel. Group mode is very unpredictable.

Even with vanilla default ships the BotF tactical combat code is a mess.
Many times ships refuse to fire phaser/torpedoes, with perfect firing solutions, for unknown reasons (rate of fire etc.).

It might help to check some vanilla ship slots in the hob viewer and read the corresponding slot values using the 26 directions list.
All vanilla slots have a 120 dergee arc (often overlapping with other slot arcs), unless turret (very rare).

EDIT: If you visualise the 'cones' of the slot firing arcs, you notice that close quarter combat has much more blind spots.
This might lead to the misconception of a beam min range. Narrow arcs worsen this issue.

List re-sorted for better readability:

List of the 26 valid direction values: (default firing arc 120 degree, for narrow 60 degree add 0x40, for wide 180 degree +0x80)

01 F - Fore
02 A - Aft
04 S - Starboard (right)
05 FS
06 AS
08 P - Port (left)
09 FP
0A AP
10 U - Up
11 FU
12 AU
14 SU
15 FSU
16 ASU
18 PU
19 FPU
1A APU
20 D - Down
21 FD
22 AD
24 SD
25 FSD
28 PD
26 ASD
29 FPD
2A APD

[thunderchero]

well...

My testing did not go as I originally expected.

Is the directions/values correct in Spocks-cuddly-tribble list? I think so

Do the firing arc values work? yes

But....

since in solo mode phaser ignore all other targets even if the main target is in a blind angel. Group mode is very unpredictable.

Even with vanilla default ships the BotF tactical combat code is a mess.
Many times ships refuse to fire phaser/torpedoes, with perfect firing solutions, for unknown reasons (rate of fire etc.).

I agree with Spocks-cuddly-tribble, And I will add in close combat firing arc looks to be ignored on some commands. I noticed this mostly on evade

also firing arc is the position of models when phaser start to fire. So if both models are moving it will continue to fire well after phaser is out of firing arc angles.

It might help to check some vanilla ship slots in the hob viewer and read the corresponding slot values using the 26 directions list.
All vanilla slots have a 120 dergee arc (often overlapping with other slot arcs), unless turret (very rare).

I know QD talked about his hobview that displayed hardpoint, but don't think he ever released that version.

it might help understand values but for vanilla ships I would say leave well enough alone.

for already user created models with unknown hard point locations I would use 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 now.

If a person had the flt file used during final conversion it might take 20 min to add new hard points and convert to hob. then 20 min to add back into game and edit trek.exe for new firing arc.

even though I have most of my models final flt files I doubt if I would take the 3 months to do all of them.
But I am considering editing udm and mum to "01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01"

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

firing arc is the position of models when phaser start to fire. So if both models are moving it will continue to fire well after phaser is out of firing arc angles.

Just an animation-time issue (human perception). Phaser hits take effect immediately i.e. a destroyed target would stop movement at once.

Btw this also one of the many problems why we cannot fix the pulse weapon code.

I know QD talked about his hobview that displayed hardpoint, but don't think he ever released that version.

Strange, I thought I saw pictures of ships viewed in the tool, but posts are very old and the pics removed/broken.

for already user created models with unknown hard point locations I would use 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 now.

If a person had the flt file used during final conversion it might take 20 min to add new hard points and convert to hob. then 20 min to add back into game and edit trek.exe for new firing arc.

even though I have most of my models final flt files I doubt if I would take the 3 months to do all of them.
But I am considering editing udm and mum to "01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01"

I see, but you might consider using 02 (or 42 narrow) for a few known aft slots (e.g. your NV Intrepid)?

Or all slots 81 (forward/wide) if you want ships with better arcs than others.

In ECM I changed klingon BoPs to all 41 forward/narrow arc plus Defiant to all 41 (forward/narrow) for balance reasons.

Plus corrupted Edo God slots to C0 turret (due to unknown hob slot positions) to fix dead angels.

[Flocke]

for shared slots I was going to suggest 4 forward "41" left "48" right "44" 2 rearward "42"

I was going to suggest unmodded federation light cruiser stats, but they suck, only one can fire down
11 forward up
15 forward up right
19 forward up left
14 up right
18 up left
16 backward up right
1A backward up left
21 forward down

What about an hybrid of HM1, HM2 and HL1
it has a great match with many vanilla ships and seems reasonable
plus it uses 8 slots total like the previous shared slot defaults
11 forward up
15 forward up right
19 forward up left
16 backward up right
1A backward up left
21 forward down
28 down left
24 down right
most forward up, a few down and back

gameplay wise the most powerful likely is if all fired in some foreward angle, but that's a rather stupid design

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

Keep in mind that the slot positions in the hob file should fit with the firing orientation of slots 1-X. Otherwise you might get strange rendering effects.

gameplay wise the most powerful likely is if all fired in some foreward angle

This doesn't affect the rate of fire (shiplist.sst number of shots). It's only about whether any of the ship slots has a firing solution for the target.
Loops for slots 1-X (via position, orientation and arc) and uses the first valid for the shot (or the one closest to the target if valid?).

[Flocke]

Keep in mind that the slot positions in the hob file should fit with the firing orientation of slots 1-X. Otherwise you might get strange rendering effects.

yes, but that can happen with any shared slot configuration

This doesn't affect the rate of fire (shiplist.sst number of shots). It's only about whether any of the ship slots has a firing solution for the target.
Loops for slots 1-X (via position, orientation and arc) and uses the first valid for the shot (or the one closest to the target if valid?).

Ah, that makes sense! Then the only balancing effect it has is whether there are some black areas or not.

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

Then the only balancing effect it has is whether there are some black areas or not.

Sadly, yes:

In theory one could use different firing arcs for Heavy Cannons, Beam Banks, Arrays or Turrets on the same ship.

Unfortunately the game development stopped before different weapon types, strengths, firing rates and animations could get assigned to specific weapon slots of the ship model.

- no torpedo and/or unkown ship hob slots
- phaser & plasma hob are mutually exclusive and share same ship hob & trek.exe slots
- the second energy weapon (galaxy 2 default) has no ingame display for stats, issues when paired with main phasers and shares the phaser/plasma setting