Diplomacy - testing

[geordie]

The bribing / membership canceling works fine, but could you check if similar mechanics is implemented in affiliation cases. I have max regard, an efficient envoy and no effect for several turns (bribing against the Cards should not be the hardest ones).

[Iceman]

The bribing / membership canceling works fine, but could you check if similar mechanics is implemented in affiliation cases. I have max regard, an efficient envoy and no effect for several turns (bribing against the Cards should not be the hardest ones).

It's not implemented yet for affiliation, no, you are correct. It's in my ToDo list, I'll move it up in priority.
I really need to release a new patch, but I'm really really swamped at work these days, on the verge of a (physycal) breakdown...

[geordie]

Take care of yourself first!

There is one more issue in the Diplomacy screen.
In the same turn I got a messages about the Ocampa accepting my affiliation proposal, them joining the Klingon empire and canceling the affiliation.
It happens...... but the Diplomacy screen is not updated - I believe it is only a screen update, because all the rest works properly for their membership status.

Screenshot 20250211 082957.jpg

[Iceman]

Do you have a savegame where this issue can be reproduced? It might help track down why it is still happening.

[geordie]

Accidentaly I have a perfect save, one turn before it happens and I was able to reproduce that situation

SP Federation Huge Irregular 230.zip

[Iceman]

Accidentaly I have a perfect save, one turn before it happens and I was able to reproduce that situation

Finally got it fixed! Your savegame was perfect, thanks!
I'll look into the other issue(s) now.

[geordie]

I suppose there might be an error as a side effect of the last patch.
I cannot perform any action with a minor race which canceled their membership of other empire.
My proposals aren't even ignored.
Please check the Arbazan in the save below.

SP Romulans Huge Irregular 285.zip

Edit: only gifts are accepted by the Arbazan.
Edit2: in turn 297 I got a membership proposal from the Arbazan

[geordie]

After becoming a member of the Federation the Arbazan are still at war with other minor races - the Dominion has declared war after the Arbazan had abandoned them.

Screenshot 20250219 162526.jpg

Edit: OK, it looks that such war state doesn't exclude the membership anymore. At least the Norcadians were able to propose to become the Federation member. It only looks weird on the DIplomacy Overview screen, because my two members are still at war between themselves.

[geordie]

I was able to successfully test the affiliation agreement termination!

But also found something unexpected.
Please check the Tak Tak (69,1) status and the sitrep.

SP Federation Huge Irregular 359.zip

Such a big relation change - from the membership to a subjugation in one turn - might be OK, but wanted to let you know.

[Iceman]

I suppose there might be an error as a side effect of the last patch.
I cannot perform any action with a minor race which canceled their membership of other empire.
My proposals aren't even ignored.
Please check the Arbazan in the save below.
SP Romulans Huge Irregular 285.zip

Edit: only gifts are accepted by the Arbazan.

In this save, the Arbazan are members of your empire. The only action possible is to offer credits (to keep them happy and to counter bribes), yes, but that's intended. What other actions were you expecting to be possible?
It's always been like that.

Edit2: in turn 297 I got a membership proposal from the Arbazan

Are they still a member of your empire at this point?

[Iceman]

After becoming a member of the Federation the Arbazan are still at war with other minor races - the Dominion has declared war after the Arbazan had abandoned them.

Screenshot 20250219 162526.jpg

Sorry I can't keep up with all the apparent allegiance changes of the Arbazan.
You bribed them out of some empire, then they joined your empire, now they are Federation members?

I should address the minor at war with minor issue, but I need to think about all the implications of member minors not being at war with civs that are at war with the empire; I think there had to be a reason for it to be like that, I just can't remember what it is...

Edit: OK, it looks that such war state doesn't exclude the membership anymore. At least the Norcadians were able to propose to become the Federation member. It only looks weird on the DIplomacy Overview screen, because my two members are still at war between themselves.

You lost me. Are you playing the Roms or the Feds? The save was for the Roms...

[Iceman]

I was able to successfully test the affiliation agreement termination!

But also found something unexpected.
Please check the Tak Tak (69,1) status and the sitrep.

SP Federation Huge Irregular 359.zip

Such a big relation change - from the membership to a subjugation in one turn - might be OK, but wanted to let you know.

The SitRep says they terminated their *agreement* with the Feds, are you sure it was a membership treaty? Because if it was, the SitRep would have explicitly stated so.
And the status is Unreachable, not Subjugated; Unreachable is when the minor belongs to an empire with whom you're at war with, so you cannot contact them. The Klingons must have bribed the Tak Tak I guess, and offered membership, which they accepted.


If there's something I'm not understanding or reading incorrectly, please let me know.

[geordie]

It's the Feds game!
Sorry for my clumsiness and attaching a wrong file

SP Federation Huge Irregular 285.zip

In this save, the Arbazan are members of your empire. The only action possible is to offer credits (to keep them happy and to counter bribes), yes, but that's intended. What other actions were you expecting to be possible?
It's always been like that.

In turn 285 the Arbazan were not a Federation member

Screenshot 2025-02-23 125129.jpg

All proposasl except pure gifts were ineffective.
I had the same problem with ALL other bribed races. After they have terminated their agreement with other empire I had to wait for them to propose the membership.

The SitRep says they terminated their *agreement* with the Feds, are you sure it was a membership treaty? Because if it was, the SitRep would have explicitly stated so.
And the status is Unreachable, not Subjugated; Unreachable is when the minor belongs to an empire with whom you're at war with, so you cannot contact them. The Klingons must have bribed the Tak Tak I guess, and offered membership, which they accepted.

The Tak Tak became my member just one (!!!) turn earlier - and of course they propose that.
Despite the termination and access to the Klingon Empire I still have access to the Tat Tak system and can make orders. In turn 359 the status was "subjugated" and changed later into "unreachable", but I still had access to the system and from my point it worked as a subjugated race, despite they were quite happy. I governed the Tak Tak system till the end of this game (about turm 430)
I suppose the Tak Tak have agreed to the Klingons proposal one turn later, when the Feds' proposal was still somehow pending.

[geordie]

It's funny, in my live game, in turn 359, the first status of the TAK TAK is '"subjugated", but it disappears in that turn save

Screenshot 2025-02-23 132103.jpg

I can reproduce that still.
If you want to retrace the whole membership mess - it's a save of two turns earlier.

SP Federation Huge Irregular 357.zip

[Iceman]

The Tak Tak became my member just one (!!!) turn earlier - and of course they propose that.
Despite the termination and access to the Klingon Empire I still have access to the Tat Tak system and can make orders. In turn 359 the status was "subjugated" and changed later into "unreachable", but I still had access to the system and from my point it worked as a subjugated race, despite they were quite happy. I governed the Tak Tak system till the end of this game (about turm 430)
I suppose the Tak Tak have agreed to the Klingons proposal one turn later, when the Feds' proposal was still somehow pending.

It's funny, in my live game, in turn 359, the first status of the TAK TAK is '"subjugated", but it disappears in that turn save
If you want to retrace the whole membership mess - it's a save of two turns earlier.
SP Federation Huge Irregular 357.zip

You wouldn't happen to have a savegame from the previous turn (356), would you?
The issue is that the Tak Tak proposed Membership to you, and the following turn they proposed the same thing to the Klingons...
In this save, the proposal to the Klingons has already been made, so I can't test a possible fix.

Since the Tak Tak were not independent anymore after joining the Federation, when they (illegally) accepted membership with the Klingons they couldn't transfer their homesystem to the Klingon Empire, hence you still having access to their homesystem. The subjugated status is due to the status not being properly updated - but this situation should not have happened anyway.