New installer Beta available 11-20-23

[justanick]

How does this fix work? Does it make sense for the federation to declare war on pacifist minors in order to make them offer membership? That would be a bit of a twist.

[thunderchero]

cannon feds would not declare war, they would give them gifts/trade and raise there attitude normally

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

How does this fix work? Does it make sense for the federation to declare war on pacifist minors in order to make them offer membership? That would be a bit of a twist.

It's the code of the subroutine. Switch and message was meant only if war was declared. A surrender/self defense mechanism as you say.
And there is even more prerequisites, so it's a gamble to declare war since it doesn't always work, so you might lose diplomatic sympathy for nothing.
I think that's the point behind the feature. With the bug it's a no brainer since you don't have to risk anything.

You can test this in vanilla with higher difficulty level resp. in ECM with higher starting levels of all empires (influences the minor start EL).
A single armed scout didn't trigger membership offer in my tests.

In fact the vanilla AI federation sometimes decares war on minor races (another bug, fixed in ECM) but is unable to invade free minors.
After that it needs time and credits to bribe them again....

As federation player I wouldn't use this tactic anyway:
Minors need time to develop the system population and tech so that membership becomes useful (which might change the trigger).

[justanick]

As federation player I wouldn't use this tactic anyway:
Minors need time to develop the system population and tech so that membership becomes useful (which might change the trigger).

The idea is not wrong, but it can have relevant downsides. If you start at the lowest tech level, then an early membership is a significant boost to research, intelligence and income and possibly trade routes that help to soak in more minors. Also minors can grow faster after becoming members. So at least in principle i would have them become members rather sooner than later.

The time between two advancements of a minor tends to be slightly longer than upgrading them yourself takes.

The best time for a minor to join is just shortly after an advancement and such an advance can usually be seen by an increase in orbital batteries.

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

it can have relevant downsides.

Yes, the fix makes the game harder by removing an exploit option. But the Federation is in low tech games with minor races one of the easiest empires( even in ECM, with fixed minor race EL limit). So I worry more for the poor empires, when you can't afford to wait since you need every credit.

If you start at the lowest tech level, then an early membership is a significant boost to research, intelligence and income and possibly trade routes that help to soak in more minors. Also minors can grow faster after becoming members. So at least in principle i would have them become members rather sooner than later.

The time between two advancements of a minor tends to be slightly longer than upgrading them yourself takes.

That's not my experience (even in harder ECM), but I take your word that there is some cases where this might be true (e.g. small or medium map - my tests are all with large irregular maps). Early membership is more a thing for hight tech games, to extend range faster and/or to get useful special structures (low tech you can't afford to buy/build them early).

The best time for a minor to join is just shortly after an advancement and such an advance can usually be seen by an increase in orbital batteries.

Yes, this is the best indicator in ECM (in vanilla you see the pop jump).

[justanick]

That's not my experience (even in harder ECM), but I take your word that there is some cases where this might be true (e.g. small or medium map - my tests are all with large irregular maps). Early membership is more a thing for hight tech games, to extend range faster and/or to get useful special structures (low tech you can't afford to buy/build them early).

I would argue that early membership is quite useful in low tech large maps.

In large maps early membership means that other minors will also join earlier. Your home system only has 2 trade routes and the earlier you can use them to soak in the next minor, the better. Same is true for the potential trade routes of your minors and the extra income also helps. It is of course a balance as minors with primitive farms only may first require an initial investment of some credits to reach a reasonably degree of development. Waiting till they reach at least level 1 and possibly level 2 can of course make sense in some instances.

Low tech means that even a few more level 1 universities make a significant contribution to your research and better techs will help to develop your systems and your military, but also the level of your databanks to protect against sabotage.

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

Yes, for said reasons sometimes a 'premature harvest' can be useful. I'd choose first the minor races with bad tech advancements (e.g. Chalnoth) in this case. Plus in ECM large map with low tech, I'd focus research for sience booster structures to increase the minor race evolution limit (depends on highest tech level of all empires in the game).

[thunderchero]

Hi Everyone,

not heard much here, so I am guessing no issues with this beta version.

I do have a few things to update

1. new updated DxWnd proxy file to test
2. test version of UE?
3. update Galaxy mod (if we hear from Tethys)
4. added a few more integrity check fixes
5. still considering adding fixed combat view to some of my mods


any other updates? ECM?

[Spocks-cuddly-tribble]

any other updates? ECM?

I'm uncertain about:

- Race Info Screen with Minor Race Personality and AI Agenda (great patch, but no bug-fix, might pass as cosmetic?)
- War Check Fix for Pacifist Minor Races

- AI Agenda fix - Offensive War -> still unfinished buggy

And perhaps we can fix Planet killer (and ECM Borg) gas giant code glitches.

[Flocke]

2. test version of UE?

Given there has been little feedback, I assume all works perfectly.
I still have a few save game issues on my list plus I need to reinstall to check whther there are any mod issues I missed.
But from my side that can wait till after the release.

Best let me know when I should make the next UE dev release - before you find next serious issue.

P.S. Would be neat when you add some text file with installer version notice.
I'm just too lazy to keep track on what version I have installed...

[thunderchero]

Best let me know when I should make the next UE dev release - before you find next serious issue.

no rush at all, real life has me busy and I still have not even compiled latest changes.

I was not sure if you wanted to do a release for others to test (those who do not compile source) before adding to installer?

[Flocke]

I was not sure if you wanted to do a release for others to test (those who do not compile source) before adding to installer?

I doubt it'll make much of a difference. I rather do some little more testing myself and continue fix a few savegame issues.

Nonetheless I'll make a release soon, just for the reason, that any further additions on my list are larger topics on its own and not much related to ship model editing I focused on. Afterall the current branch is named "improve_shipgfx_export" and it already is 1747 commits ahead of the master branch.

The new import options were the last important feature I wanted to include after SCT mentioned the troublesome translation updates.
The import/export functionality ofc still can be improved, but I rather wait on feedback now before I invest further time.

[thunderchero]

Nonetheless I'll make a release soon

sounds good, but I am looking at 3-4 weeks before I would get anything together.

[Flocke]

sounds good, but I am looking at 3-4 weeks before I would get anything together.

Some more time for testing then. That's fine.

BTW, did I mention the install would benefit from some select all options so there are less clicks needed to install?

select-all.jpg

Although it's not important, maybe at least the UI glitch can be removed.
Can't believe there is no better option than to repeat same entry twice.

[thunderchero]

BTW, did I mention the install would benefit from some select all options so there are less clicks needed to install?
select-all.jpg

Although it's not important, maybe at least the UI glitch can be removed.
Can't believe there is no better option than to repeat same entry twice.

I am looking into "condensed" options

example; first thing to select would be resolution/display mode (window/full) this would be used for all mods installed during that install run.
Then select mod to install and other options (mainly icon)

if no change it is possible to remove dropdown list.

EDIT; here is an example of what component page would look like

component.jpg

here is example of task page (no option selected when opens, but selecting parent "mod" will give default selections)

task.jpg